 |
Lonelygirl15
Forum to post messages about Bree and Danielbeast
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Sheikh Gomelez
Thor's Hammer
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 1237
Location: The Garden of Forking Paths, south of Viriconium.
|
 Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| psychobunnie wrote: | They are making a Nancy Drew movie starring Emma Roberts. >.>
in case anyone cared, lol. |
I think 'mute mentioned that.
It'll probably be mildly better than that wretched version of The Saint with Val Kilmer.
I used to really, really dig the Simon Templar stories. Watching the Kilmer-infected film pissed me off to no end. It was like watching a stray dog crap on a neglected but fabulous heirloom.
To my mind, The Saint ranks with The Island of Dr. Moreau as one of the worst moments in Kilmer's career.
Kilmer's been in some decent films. He's also been in some stinkers.
_________________
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tension, apprehension,
And dissension have begun. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Languorous Lass
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Gone, baby, gone
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sheikh Gomelez wrote: | | You don't find that sort of thing amusing? |
Not really, not in this case.
| Sheikh Gomelez wrote: | | When I was a kid, I read the Nancy Drew books, but they didn't do much for me. I was more interested in Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot, Father Brown, Gideon Fell. Later I got into the Black Mask school of writing... and the adventures of Jules de Grandin. |
I enjoyed the more literary books as well, but Nancy Drew will always have a special place in my heart, because she was one of the few female role models that weren't ditzy and always needing to be rescued by the boys.
I was also a big comic book fan, but even a character like Lois Lane -- who's pretty competent and confident as depicted these days -- was shown back then as a Lucy Ricardo-type schemer whom Superman kept saving from the consequences of her "harebrained schemes." And Supergirl was a lonely orphan who kept getting her heart broken. Nancy was the only genre heroine I knew of who was calm and unflappable and unfailingly logical. So the way the movies portrayed her is particularly galling.[/quote]
| Sheikh Gomelez wrote: | | I think the movies are entertaining enough for what they are. |
I could probably enjoy the movies -- if their main character wasn't named "Nancy Drew." The movie Nancy is so completely opposite from what the Nancy on the page stands for that if I were a conspiracy theorist, I might even believe that the movies were deliberately designed to undercut the positive message that the book-Nancy conveys. (Good thing I'm not a conspiracy theorist, eh?) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sheikh Gomelez
Thor's Hammer
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 1237
Location: The Garden of Forking Paths, south of Viriconium.
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Languorous Lass wrote: |
1.) I enjoyed the more literary books as well, but Nancy Drew will always have a special place in my heart, because she was one of the few female role models that weren't ditzy and always needing to be rescued by the boys.
2.) I was also a big comic book fan, but even a character like Lois Lane -- who's pretty competent and confident as depicted these days -- was shown back then as a Lucy Ricardo-type schemer whom Superman kept saving from the consequences of her "harebrained schemes." And Supergirl was a lonely orphan who kept getting her heart broken. Nancy was the only genre heroine I knew of who was calm and unflappable and unfailingly logical. So the way the movies portrayed her is particularly galling.
...
3.) I could probably enjoy the movies -- if their main character wasn't named "Nancy Drew." The movie Nancy is so completely opposite from what the Nancy on the page stands for that if I were a conspiracy theorist, I might even believe that the movies were deliberately designed to undercut the positive message that the book-Nancy conveys. (Good thing I'm not a conspiracy theorist, eh?) |
1.) I don't know if I'd call the works more literary than the Nancy Drew books. The markets-- the intended audiences-- were different; that's all.
Part of the pleasure I get from reading any mystery arises from generic expectations. Mysteries and crime fiction are examples of popular fiction. Critical and academic interpretations aside, I dig such reading material because it's unabashedly and nakedly fun.
All of which means, I guess, that the word "literary" seems to imply "quality" in too many conversations, and I think that what constitutes "quality" varies according to expectation and form/genre.
In short, I liked the books I mentioned, and I'm still partial to them. I'm not sure I can explain why I enjoy them.
They're damned good at what they set out to do. I suppose that's one explanation...
2.) Yeah, a lot of comics were-- and are-- pretty sexist. Forget Lois Lane; there's the whole "women in refrigerators" phenomenon. And there are worse examples of woobification than Supergirl, sad as that sounds.
3.) Actually, I'm not disagreeing with you on the way Nancy's portrayed in the films. I find the films amusing precisely because I see them as a kind of cultural reaction formation to the original texts. To put it another way, if the books are cheese, the films are Velveeta or maybe even Cheez Whiz. (I suppose the latter is a better analogy, given the "gee whiz" nature of the books.)
When I say I find the films "amusing", I'm not suggesting that I approve of such portrayals of female characters or find the films "funny" in a ha-ha way. I mean that such films give me a renewed appreciation for, say, Kate Hepburn, who would've made a great adult Nancy.
It's amusing and entertaining and instructive to read one text against another, or to look at something from a certain context. (Gawd, that sounded all lit-crit.) If I cheer for Fu Manchu, it's because I'm aware of the original Yellow Peril nonsense and because I live in the era of talk radio and Lou Dobbs, if that clarifies what I mean by "amusement".
It helps that Fu Manchu is a cool character, of course. 
I'm also interested in attempts to "soften" or undermine powerful pop culture icons, simply because those icons can seldom be undermined in any significant way. Like most mythic figures, they survive their treatment at the hands of fools, or they appear to go out of style but influence some later creation; they linger in the culture in some form or other, even if they have to mutate to survive.
When the originals are reworked in new and interesting ways, the distortion not only comments on the original, it demonstrates the power of the original. The distortions exist because of those original forms. Imaro works both as a critique of Tarzan and Conan and as a tribute to the staying power of those characters, if that makes sense. Austin Powers works because of the cultural heritage the character evokes and mocks.
In the hands of fools-- and I think the makers of the Drew flicks were fools and hacks rather than truly gifted artists-- the distortion gives the original more power, more appeal.
I don't think you're paranoid. I think the studio wanted to "soften" Nancy to increase ticket sales.
The last laugh is on the folks who made the Nancy Drew films. If we watch the movies today, it's because we like or are interested in the original character. And that is ha-ha funny to me.
Having said all these things, I'll add that I prefer other female characters to Miss Drew. Marian Halcombe in The Woman in White comes to mind; I fell in love with that character, and I'm probably still in love with her. (And really, isn't Hartright a jerk for preferring Marian's prettier, shallower sister, and isn't Marian that novel's real protagonist? Collins was amazingly smart in his critique of Victorian culture, and most adaptations of the novel are either laughable or, at best, merely passable.) When I was younger, Miss Marple-- who could be a bitch in amazingly cool and often subtle ways-- rocked my world. Later, in a pulpier way, The Domino Lady did much the same thing; she struck me as being at least as cool as The Shadow or Doc Savage.
_________________
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tension, apprehension,
And dissension have begun. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sheikh Gomelez
Thor's Hammer
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 1237
Location: The Garden of Forking Paths, south of Viriconium.
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm a strong believer in serious fun; I believe something can be serious and fun at the same time.
_________________
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tension, apprehension,
And dissension have begun. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wintermute
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 4430
Location: Stalking Rae and gamejacking CiW
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sheikh Gomelez wrote: | | Kilmer's been in some decent films. He's also been in some stinkers. |
Real Genius and Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang fit in the decent category. Everything else, not so much.
'mute
_________________
Proud member of LG15 Defense Force.
Proud member of "The Five" (who have been "Tagged" by Hymn of One).
'vote 'mute in '16! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AutoPilate
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 4344
Location: Vatican City State (Holy See)
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
Don't forget Top Secret!, old chum.
_________________
Why was there BACON IN THE SOAP?! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Val Kilmer is teh sex.
_________________
You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while.
Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AutoPilate
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 4344
Location: Vatican City State (Holy See)
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've yet to see Wonderland.
_________________
Why was there BACON IN THE SOAP?! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've yet to see a lot of movies...I need to get my ass out there and see some, I guess.
_________________
You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while.
Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sheikh Gomelez
Thor's Hammer
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 1237
Location: The Garden of Forking Paths, south of Viriconium.
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| wintermute wrote: | | Sheikh Gomelez wrote: | | Kilmer's been in some decent films. He's also been in some stinkers. |
Real Genius and Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang fit in the decent category. Everything else, not so much.
'mute |
I sort of liked Heat and Spartan. I didn't love those flicks, but I found them interesting.
Wonderland managed to be a boring film about John Holmes, drugs, and murder. One of my least favorite films of recent years. This cinematic abomination isn't even redeemably campy. I seldom fall asleep during movies; I wanted to do so while watching this one, but I was too pissed off for the boredom to have its usual soporific effect...
As for Batman Forever... I hated the movie, but I thought the Batnipples™ were hilarious.
_________________
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tension, apprehension,
And dissension have begun. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AutoPilate
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 4344
Location: Vatican City State (Holy See)
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Have either of you fine gentlemen seen The Salton Sea? Was that any good?
_________________
Why was there BACON IN THE SOAP?! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have that DVD at home...haven't watche it yet. I'll watch it tonight.
_________________
You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while.
Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AutoPilate
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 4344
Location: Vatican City State (Holy See)
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
We'll expect a full report upon the morrow. Thanks, Kas, you're the best. 
_________________
Why was there BACON IN THE SOAP?! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, I am, aren't I?
_________________
You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while.
Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wintermute
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 4430
Location: Stalking Rae and gamejacking CiW
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AutoPilate wrote: | | Have either of you fine gentlemen seen The Salton Sea? Was that any good? |
From IMDB, it looks vaguely familiar, but I don't think I have. Sorry.
'mute
_________________
Proud member of LG15 Defense Force.
Proud member of "The Five" (who have been "Tagged" by Hymn of One).
'vote 'mute in '16! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
