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Lonelygirl15
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Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
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 Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:33 am Post subject: |
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They would lead me to believe that taking the money could prevent children getting taken away and/or losing a home.
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Ziola
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 5774
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Sheikh Gomelez wrote: | | Kasdeja wrote: | | We do know some dynamics...as Z pointed out. |
Would those dynamics lead you to believe that escalation of conflict is possible? |
I believe that, because they are already tense and feeling under scrutiny, that yes, escalation of conflict is possible. That being said, her husband really needs to get a firm grasp on reality. The situation that they are in could really have dire consequences if he doesn't use stop and think about it. |
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Sheikh Gomelez
Thor's Hammer
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 1237
Location: The Garden of Forking Paths, south of Viriconium.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Kasdeja wrote: | | They would lead me to believe that taking the money could prevent children getting taken away and/or losing a home. |
I'll repeat the question, and I'll rephrase my suggestion as another question.
Do you think that conflict is possible? If so, would it be preferable to resolve the situation in such a way that the money is received, the children aren't taken away, and the couple doesn't lose the home?
Is such a conflict necessary, i.e. beneficial, at the moment? If so, how and why?
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Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tension, apprehension,
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Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: |
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Conflict is a necessary result of many decisions, to varying degrees...that doesn't mean you should avoid it. Avoiding conflict is a mistake. Facing it for the benefit of your family is sometimes necessary, no matter if you are a prideful male. Like Z said, I wouldn't even give him the option. Obviously it's preferable to face conflict so that the children aren't taken away, etc. What good is your pride if your life crumbles because of it?
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Sheikh Gomelez
Thor's Hammer
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 1237
Location: The Garden of Forking Paths, south of Viriconium.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Ziola wrote: | | Sheikh Gomelez wrote: | | Kasdeja wrote: | | We do know some dynamics...as Z pointed out. |
Would those dynamics lead you to believe that escalation of conflict is possible? |
I believe that, because they are already tense and feeling under scrutiny, that yes, escalation of conflict is possible. That being said, her husband really needs to get a firm grasp on reality. The situation that they are in could really have dire consequences if he doesn't use stop and think about it. |
I believe that was my original point. Convince him that it's to his benefit...
But use the soft sell, as things are already tense.
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Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tension, apprehension,
And dissension have begun. |
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Sheikh Gomelez
Thor's Hammer
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 1237
Location: The Garden of Forking Paths, south of Viriconium.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Kasdeja wrote: | | Conflict is a necessary result of many decisions, to varying degrees...that doesn't mean you should avoid it. |
Did I say that she should avoid it, or did I say that she should wait until a more opportune moment?
| Quote: | | Avoiding conflict is a mistake. |
Not always.
| Quote: | | Facing it for the benefit of your family is sometimes necessary, no matter if you are a prideful male. |
There's a uniquely male version of pride, eh? You don't say.
What was that you said about gender-specific roles?
Sorry, couldn't resist. 
I agree, as I think I've said. Numerous times. But... again, in a tense situation, I recommend the soft sell.
| Quote: | | Like Z said, I wouldn't even give him the option. Obviously it's preferable to face conflict so that the children aren't taken away, etc. |
Depends. Some conflicts could result in precisely that sort of outcome. Or in a messy situation involving lawyers.
Again, I'd have to know the particular dynamics-- and some other factors-- to make a determination.
| Quote: | | What good is your pride if your life crumbles because of it? |
What good is conflict if it doesn't achieve the desired aim?
_________________
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tension, apprehension,
And dissension have begun.
Last edited by Sheikh Gomelez on Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: |
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And, the male pride reference was a dig at you, dear. I don't agree that waiting is good. I don't agree that someone who is an adult should be pampered. In this case, waiting could be detrimental. I can't support that theory. I don't understand your last statement...how is it that avoidint this conflict would achieve the desired aim? Is the desired aim not hurting the ickle man? Or is the desired aim to keep the family afloat so they can get on their feet? If the desired aim is to keep the family afloat, which it seems to be, then pampering a childish guy wouldn't achieve that goal. It hasen't thus far, hence the offering of money. To me, from past posts by her...it seems she's went this soft route long enough. I wouldn't give him an option.
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Sheikh Gomelez
Thor's Hammer
Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 1237
Location: The Garden of Forking Paths, south of Viriconium.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Kasdeja wrote: | | And, the male pride reference was a dig at you, dear. |
I figured as much. It didn't quite register as a dig, though. We men are thick-skinned and thick-skulled. 
| Quote: | | I don't agree that someone who is an adult should be pampered. |
I don't see the soft sell as pampering.
| Quote: | | I don't agree that waiting is good... In this case, waiting could be detrimental. |
It could, or it could not. If you're talking about taking the money, sure. If you're talking about the conflict, I'm not so certain. I'd have to know a lot more about the particulars before making that determination.
"In battle, make sure you are fighting from an advantageous position." Right now, the situation seems unstable. Too many variables.
I say postpone the battle till the financial situation's resolved.
| Quote: | | I don't understand your last statement...how is it that avoidint this conflict would achieve the desired aim? |
She asked about the financial situation. While a number of people were recommending a confrontation, I suggested that he could be brought around to the position without conflict.
| Quote: | | Is the desired aim not hurting the ickle man? |
A nice rhetorical flourish. Kudos!
Would I have recommended confronting him about his ego at a later date if I was concerned about his feelings? 
| Quote: | | Or is the desired aim to keep the family afloat so they can get on their feet? If the desired aim is to keep the family afloat, which it seems to be, then pampering a childish guy wouldn't achieve that goal. |
If the desired aim is keeping the family afloat, this is primarily-- at least at present-- about the money. His ego is an obstacle. It might be a cause, too. At the very least, it's probably a contributing factor. If it is a cause or contributing factor, dealing with his ego is likely to be time-consuming. I'd solve the immediate problem, then work on the time-consuming one.
I might be wrong, but I thought we were talking about which tactic will yield the best and quickest result w/r/t the immediate problem.
| Quote: | | It hasen't thus far, hence the offering of money. |
Then my advice stands. Get the money and, from a relatively secure position, broach the matter of his ego.
If she doesn't want to consult him on the matter, she shouldn't. If she feels she should, she should use the soft sell.
| Quote: | | To me, from past posts by her...it seems she's went this soft route long enough. |
Hmm... I'm suggesting she try to achieve her goal. Which isn't, I think, taking a soft route. Taking the soft route would signify, to me, passively letting stuff happen. I'm suggesting action of a non-confrontational nature... for now.
Oh well. Perhaps I'm soft.
Also, I don't take anyone's posts as providing a full and detailed picture of his or her situation. Which is why I keep saying I'd need more information before making specific suggestions, and why I suggested caution.
(For what it's worth, I don't think I made a specific suggestion; my proposals were pretty general, and the comment about sex was a bit of facetiousness on my part. Kelly should feel free to ignore my advice if she finds it irrelevant and/or inadequate to her situation.)
| Quote: | | I wouldn't give him an option. |
Who said anything about giving him an option? I said she should get him to see taking the money as beneficial-- to him, as well as to her.
If she wants to do so, she should take the money behind his back, straighten the finances on her own, then confront him.
EDIT: In case anyone thinks the discussion's getting heated, let me point out that this is a friendly discussion, and Kas and I are treating it as such.
If we give each other crap, it's because we like each other.
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Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tenser, said the Tensor.
Tension, apprehension,
And dissension have begun. |
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Crooked Angel
Devoted Fan
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 641
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:16 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Sheikh Gomelez"
Also, bribe him with sex. Remain calm, use your wiles and charms, lower his guard, THEN, when it's done and he's at his weakest, mention you love him... how strong he is, etc. What a good man he is. Gradually reveal to him how much he means to you, allude to the situation not being permanent, etc. End with the idea that it's beneficial to the two of you.[/quote]
LOL Do all men find an excuse for sex? I have to give birthday sex, christmas sex, thanksgiving sex, anniversary sex , but I said forget it when he tried the " but it's Presidents Day" !!! 
But anyway When you need help, you need it!!! My Husband is the same way , but I told him that if someone in the family needed help and we could , we would help them! We wouldnt think less of them and it would make us feel good knowing that we could help out. It's better to take help now then just get farther and farther in the hole and not be able to dig yourselves out!
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AutoPilate
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 4344
Location: Vatican City State (Holy See)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Pampering is an inappropriate word in this situation. It's pandering, pure and simple. I'm still unconvinced that pulling this prideful gentleman's head out of his own posterior isn't the way to go, to ensure survival for all parties involved in the long run.
Let's not become like the clucking hens who seek only immediate and generally temporary satisfaction.
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