Lonelygirl15

[Renegade]

What's wrong with your discussion style?
It's your opinions that are the problem...




Kidding, kidding...don't get all worked up, kids.

Seriously, though...I don't quite get the problem you think you're having. People with differing opinions discussed an issue. So what?
As far as I'm concerned, everybody here has, at least officially, a right to free speech. You are as free to speak your opinion as everybody else is. Sometimes opinions clash, sometimes they don't. Sure, our discussions in particular might get a little long and heated over time, but...I always had the feeling we were still being civil and nice? I don't know about you, but I have seen much worse "discussions" over the years. Discussions including words we couldn't even use under the eyes of this averagely young audience. It's not like we're blocking anybody else from posting or suppressing opinions. Quite the opposite. Plus, what else would be going on if we didn't "talk" every once in a while? It's not like anything interesting happens between vids...

So, to cut this short (you know how long it could get ): I see no reason whatsoever why you should leave or change anything. It's not your fault if everybody else can't take a good discussion.


...although they should ph33r the day when we are of the same opinion, and they disagree...
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Every time you score a goal, a starving child in Africa dies.

[Lurker]

Thanks again to everyone who's commented thus far. I'll probably let this stay open for another day, until tomorrow afternoon, and then ask a mod to close it on up.

I really appreciate all the input that's been offered. Both the compliments and the non-compliments, as well as the constructive criticism/suggestions for improvement. I particularly feel like zachary2020 and BrokenKid offered some helpful advice that I should keep in mind in the future.

I'd also like to thank annie and zachary2020 for coming out of retirement — and joygasm out of semi-retirement — to provide your insight. That was very thoughtful of you, and I appreciate it a lot.

[TheeBerean]

Lurker, all of these compliments must make you feel better since Renegade and I proved you wrong backwards and forwards in the kidnapping debate I started under the "complaints" forum

Seriouslly though... Your style is great! Taking quotes and analysing and commentating on them to synthesize a new idea out of two separate ones is the ultimate approach in most of these matters. I would do more quoting and analyzing in a similar fashion, but I swear I hate making and sorting quote tags like that :-p

I first met you in the Maddy forum... and if you're tight with Maddison... that's all that matters anyway

Better go ahead and close up this thread though before your head gets to big... lol j/k.

See ya around,

~tb
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The Flock is being Misled.

[ShardinsKitten]

since I got flamed in the other thread I'll go ahead clarify here exactly what my comment meant. As it wasn't really a dig, more a venting of frustration.

There isn't anything wrong with your posting style (and for the record I don't want you to leave either, but then I don't want anyone to leave that actually enjoys being here). My simple is problem is with how you say and phrase things, and I've seen it a lot, in fact it's the reason I stopped reading your posts all together (except when you decide to quote me with is pretty much never). You come across like you know everything, and that your way is right and no one else could even be right unless they agree with you. And I think that's why so many people butt heads with you at times. Because of the air about you. It's ok to be confident and to express your opinion and question things. It's just your choice of words that make it harsh and make you seem like a know it all.

Some people aren't going to agree with your views, and that's fine that would make the world less interesting, but there comes a point when you need to let it go. (Though I do agree the other party could let it go too, so you're not all to blame). But it's hard for people to let it go, when they are feeling flamed or feeling like the person they are debating with thinks they are dirt. It's almost like they just need to prove that while they will never agree with you, they are still worthy.

*shrugs* that's my take. The net is a hard thing, because it's just words on screen, you can't hear their tone of voice, or see the body language with things.

You do what you gotta do.
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I know I'm an acquired taste: I'm anchovies. And not everyone wants those hairy little things. If I was potato chips, I could go more places. -Tori Amos

[immortal1]

I find this whole situation to be very interesting. After posting a while people develop a history, a style based on the consistency of their posts. I enjoy mixing it up-that's a part of my style. I've mixed it up with Lurker before and look foward to it again but what I learned is to pick my battles. Don't walk into a battle of wits without an army and if you engage Lurker bring a snack because he won't let you off easy. I have no problem with that. I think in a way Lurker keeps the place honest. If you can't back up something you post maybe you ought to think twice about posting it.

Now I think maybe he can tone down the nested quoting. LOL. He also may get carried away with the anime, comic analogy's and I think he needs to let OpAphid go. I personally don't think every thing Tachyon said in YouTube messages is canon. But that's part of his style and in the long run-what's it hurt?

This whole thing probably resulted more from a clash in posting styles more than anything else and perhaps not being aware of those styles before mixing it up. In fairness that isn't always possible. I think Lurker and I have in common that we both value our reputations here and have worked hard to develop them. There are posters whose style it is to make things personal, to attack directly or indirectly at a person's reputation. They are the ones who need to look in the mirror.

After reading the debate I actually agree with both sides. I always said this story was not a PG-13 story. And one of the rare times they do something of a mature nature they screwed up. I personally would not have gone with the kidnapping but they could have done it in a way that would have been much more palatable. Watching Daniel calmy and callously vlogging while Jules banged on the door in fear was disturbing to watch. It was not what he have known of the character and essentially changes who he is. That said I believe you can argue against the kidnapping with Lurker without resorting to questioning his morals.

[Lurker]

I'd like to thank everyone one last time for their input on this. I'm going to go ahead and ask a mod to lock it up for us, but I'll save myself a link to it so I can come back and read the comments, advice, etc. Also, if anyone else has any further comments to offer me, feel free to do so by PM.

I actually ended up leaving it open longer than first intended, but I wasn't expecting to get so many comments. I thank you all, and I will try to keep what each of you have said in mind.

I won't be leaving, and my style probably won't be changing in any drastic manner. That said, though, I will try to keep in mind that sometimes it's easier to let something — such as a complicated moral debate — go when both parties understand how the other feels, and will be unlikely to persuade the other. However, any comparisons, matters of practicality or other bits of data brought up in the discussion prior to dropping the goal of ultimate persuasion will remain fair game in my eyes.

I'll also try to be more receptive when it seems that someone is feeling overwhelmed, as not everyone comes looking for such a thorough debate as I'm be prone to engage in.

While it's a foreign idea to me to do such a thing on a forum, in the spirit of making everyone feel welcome here, I think that a potential solution for everyone could be the recent suggestion of clearly designating certain areas of the forum as zones free for thorough debate (or at least where it would be said that it's expected).

Sections like Plot Discussion, Concerns & Complaints, and the areas for discussion of the characters seem like good candidates for this, while sections like The Videos and Website Announcements could be where such intense discussion is not necessarily expected. This would also allow forum members engaging in what was becoming a large debate to be asked if they'd like their discussion to be moved to one of the discussion-intensive areas. That would not only make things more comfortable for those who wanted the thread in that particular area to return to its less intense state, but it would give those not interested in partaking of such a thorough discussion an out if they decided they'd like to quit there.

In this way, it would not only let those not looking for a debate to be comfortable, but it wouldn't require those who do look for them to be asked to defend theirselves or their style of discussion. Anyone who enjoys a thorough analysis (immortal1 comes to mind, as does TheeBerean, ApotheosisAZ and obviously Renegade) could be in the same position at some point in the future as I've been recently, and I'd not like to see that happen again. With the rules identifying certain areas as more discussion-intensive by their very nature, only rules would be asked to defend themselves (or be defended), not forum members or their styles of communication.

If anyone's interested in discussing these particular ideas further, feel free to make a thread for it in Suggestions. I've already presented my feelings on the idea to BK, but maybe it would be a good idea for others who'd like to see this happen to talk about it.

Thanks again, everyone. As you were.