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Lonelygirl15
Forum to post messages about Bree and Danielbeast
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WriterGirl
Lonely Fan
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 135
Location: Tennessee
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 Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| selena wrote: | I ordinarily agree that Sarah's complete self-absorption is often annoying. But she honestly does serve a purpose here. By being so over-the-top-indifferent to anyone's feelings or POV but her own, she can elicit a response from Bree (albeit an angry one) in a way that the other two couldn't. Let's face it, you can't just ignore someone who's poking food between your lips.
Annoying? Yes. But when Bree stopped connecting to anyone, getting *any* response from her was a step forward. And neither Jonas nor Daniel could get away with treating Bree that way. In addition, it may have primed her to being more open to Jonas' kindness. So in a twisted sort of way, I think Sarah has actually proved useful. |
That is a good point.
It's not that I dislike her all the time. I don't. Sometimes I like her- like in "Getting Her Back" when she put herself at risk to distract the Watcher for them- and sometimes I just can't stand her- like in "Entertaining Myself". I guess that's what makes her a good character.
ETA: LOL! This is the third page in a row I've ended up at the top of. |
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chevalier
Casual Observer
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| matsie wrote: | So I'm not a DB/Sarah fan at all. I love Sarah and she really saved the series for me, but the SarahBeast does not sit with me very well.
Daniel giving up and leaving shows how self-involved he's become. If they looked up deprogramming, Daniel should know that yelling at her and becoming confrontational is not a good tactic at all. Before you can try to tear her away from her belief in HoO, you have to gently gain her trust. If the subject doesn't trust you, they'll never believe what you say about the cult. Furthermore, saying the cult doesn't exist in the first place is a bad move as well. That would cause the subject to have an inner crisis of what reality is.
First, you take Bree out of the cult situation. Check.
Then, you establish a personal relationship. Check. (Jonas, not DB.)
THEN you talk of HoO and you give her the REAL information on the cult, not tell her it doesn't exist.
While doing this, don't let her hum or any of that stuff that brings her right back to the cult belief.
Deprogramming does not take a matter of days. In some cases it can take months. Think of it this way, if you're at all religious, how long would it take for you to completely renounce your religion? A pretty long while for me, anyway.
Sorry about the awkwardly long post, ya'll. |
Matsie-- How do you know so much about cults and deprogramming?  |
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matsie
Casual Observer
Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 99
Location: Detroit, MI/New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| chevalier wrote: | | matsie wrote: | So I'm not a DB/Sarah fan at all. I love Sarah and she really saved the series for me, but the SarahBeast does not sit with me very well.
Daniel giving up and leaving shows how self-involved he's become. If they looked up deprogramming, Daniel should know that yelling at her and becoming confrontational is not a good tactic at all. Before you can try to tear her away from her belief in HoO, you have to gently gain her trust. If the subject doesn't trust you, they'll never believe what you say about the cult. Furthermore, saying the cult doesn't exist in the first place is a bad move as well. That would cause the subject to have an inner crisis of what reality is.
First, you take Bree out of the cult situation. Check.
Then, you establish a personal relationship. Check. (Jonas, not DB.)
THEN you talk of HoO and you give her the REAL information on the cult, not tell her it doesn't exist.
While doing this, don't let her hum or any of that stuff that brings her right back to the cult belief.
Deprogramming does not take a matter of days. In some cases it can take months. Think of it this way, if you're at all religious, how long would it take for you to completely renounce your religion? A pretty long while for me, anyway.
Sorry about the awkwardly long post, ya'll. |
Matsie-- How do you know so much about cults and deprogramming? |
A family member very close to me was in a cult and I was one of the people who pushed for his deprogramming. Also, I read a lot of psych stuff.
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Faye: I would also totally kick Conor Oberst's ass just for having that ridiculous hairdo.
Marten: Is that the guy from Bright Eyes? I always confuse him with Winona Ryder. |
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chevalier
Casual Observer
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 104
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| matsie wrote: | | chevalier wrote: | | matsie wrote: | So I'm not a DB/Sarah fan at all. I love Sarah and she really saved the series for me, but the SarahBeast does not sit with me very well.
Daniel giving up and leaving shows how self-involved he's become. If they looked up deprogramming, Daniel should know that yelling at her and becoming confrontational is not a good tactic at all. Before you can try to tear her away from her belief in HoO, you have to gently gain her trust. If the subject doesn't trust you, they'll never believe what you say about the cult. Furthermore, saying the cult doesn't exist in the first place is a bad move as well. That would cause the subject to have an inner crisis of what reality is.
First, you take Bree out of the cult situation. Check.
Then, you establish a personal relationship. Check. (Jonas, not DB.)
THEN you talk of HoO and you give her the REAL information on the cult, not tell her it doesn't exist.
While doing this, don't let her hum or any of that stuff that brings her right back to the cult belief.
Deprogramming does not take a matter of days. In some cases it can take months. Think of it this way, if you're at all religious, how long would it take for you to completely renounce your religion? A pretty long while for me, anyway.
Sorry about the awkwardly long post, ya'll. |
Matsie-- How do you know so much about cults and deprogramming? |
A family member very close to me was in a cult and I was one of the people who pushed for his deprogramming. Also, I read a lot of psych stuff. |
Ah! That would do it. |
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matsie
Casual Observer
Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 99
Location: Detroit, MI/New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| chevalier wrote: | | matsie wrote: | | chevalier wrote: | | matsie wrote: | So I'm not a DB/Sarah fan at all. I love Sarah and she really saved the series for me, but the SarahBeast does not sit with me very well.
Daniel giving up and leaving shows how self-involved he's become. If they looked up deprogramming, Daniel should know that yelling at her and becoming confrontational is not a good tactic at all. Before you can try to tear her away from her belief in HoO, you have to gently gain her trust. If the subject doesn't trust you, they'll never believe what you say about the cult. Furthermore, saying the cult doesn't exist in the first place is a bad move as well. That would cause the subject to have an inner crisis of what reality is.
First, you take Bree out of the cult situation. Check.
Then, you establish a personal relationship. Check. (Jonas, not DB.)
THEN you talk of HoO and you give her the REAL information on the cult, not tell her it doesn't exist.
While doing this, don't let her hum or any of that stuff that brings her right back to the cult belief.
Deprogramming does not take a matter of days. In some cases it can take months. Think of it this way, if you're at all religious, how long would it take for you to completely renounce your religion? A pretty long while for me, anyway.
Sorry about the awkwardly long post, ya'll. |
Matsie-- How do you know so much about cults and deprogramming? |
A family member very close to me was in a cult and I was one of the people who pushed for his deprogramming. Also, I read a lot of psych stuff. |
Ah! That would do it. |
heh. Yea. I hope they can get through to Bree. A lot of people who are being deprogrammed will miss the certainty being in the cult gave them and will try to go back to them. I worry about Bree.
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Faye: I would also totally kick Conor Oberst's ass just for having that ridiculous hairdo.
Marten: Is that the guy from Bright Eyes? I always confuse him with Winona Ryder. |
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mellie3204
Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 07 Oct 2006
Posts: 251
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| tricky-ticky-tavi wrote: | | mellie3204 wrote: | Can I jump on the Jonas is awesome bandwagon for a mo...
***swoon****
Man, he is so hot it hurts. Totally.
Ahem, okay, back to the vid... Jonas was doing a good job here, at least he was getting through and showing that he is definately the one who should be heading up the deprogramming.
Daniel isn't really built for this sort of thing, sensitive and patient he is not. And he is also obviously going through a jealousy thing too which is not helping, however unfair that may be considering he is with Sarah.
I think Sarah should probably be kept out of it too... love to watch her, she makes me laugh in terms of this being entertainment, but man, if she was in my RL she would piss me off majorly all the time... I get the feeling she doesn't play well with other girls too.
So though Jonas may be lamenting that this job has fallen in his lap, really, he's the only person I would trust to do this kind of delicate work anyway.
Now we just have to get some of our psych fans around here to stand up and help (it was only my minor at Uni, so I'm not feeling very qual'd). |
I was going to write this post myself - but ya beat me to it, so ...
Ditto - what you said.  |
Why thank you
| erolyn wrote: | | looking4answers wrote: | I loved Jonas's dance. I am finally fully in love with him. (Took long enough!!)
I also loved the ending as well. Very cute. Daniel and Sarah still make me queezy. I'm not digging it. |
I think you and I are the only people not in favor of DB and Sarah. It's just...she just annoys me. I mean, maybe the "i'm a cold goth girl with daddy issues who doesn't take anything seriously and constantly needs attention" thing is amusing to some people, but I guess I've just seen it so often that now it's nothing but irritating. Especially when she's sitting there sticking goldfish in Bree's mouth?? Why would you try to force-feed someone you don't know and who is clearly in a fragile mental state? I just wish she'd cut out the silly antics and try to actually help DB and Jonas, for once. Then maybe she'd be worthy of the Beast.
Also, DB giving up annoyed me too. He's been through so much with Bree - he shouldn't give up on her now, when she really needs him, just to paint some (IMO, annoying) chick's nails. Come on, Beast, she's your BFF.
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I must say, I also agree.
| selena wrote: |
I ordinarily agree that Sarah's complete self-absorption is often annoying. But she honestly does serve a purpose here. By being so over-the-top-indifferent to anyone's feelings or POV but her own, she can elicit a response from Bree (albeit an angry one) in a way that the other two couldn't. Let's face it, you can't just ignore someone who's poking food between your lips.
Annoying? Yes. But when Bree stopped connecting to anyone, getting *any* response from her was a step forward. And neither Jonas nor Daniel could get away with treating Bree that way. In addition, it may have primed her to being more open to Jonas' kindness. So in a twisted sort of way, I think Sarah has actually proved useful. |
Hmmm... I agree she was able to elicit a response, but bringing Bree back to responsiveness is not necessarily the goal here. I think it may even be more damaging to bring here back to a state where she can think, and then have her angry at them. That may only damage the relationship and trust they could otherwise have had, and ultimately it will take longer to build that again.
She's come from a cult who have programmed her to believe they are the epitome of loving-kindness and enlightenment... I really do think any negative emotions DJS elicit in her at this point will only reinforce that programming. She needs to trust them and feel comfortable and safe. I don't think feeling like she's being made fun of will help much 
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Charles Phoenix
Devoted Fan
Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 615
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| joygasm wrote: | | belu214 wrote: | | I think she has the bird that Jonas used to make her smile. Thats cute if she brought it over becasue she likes that he was able to make her smile/happy with it and maybe wants Jonas to do it again, like a child with a toy. |
Talk about regression! That's what my 2 year old daughter does. |
some symptoms of part of what Bree is going thru
"Victims may experience shock, disbelief, and/or denial. Many victims will find it difficult to believe (or know) that they became the victim of a crime, or they may pretend that it did not happen at all. This may last for only a few moments or it may go on for months — even years. Victims often assume a more "childlike" state, and may need to be taken care of by others, at least for a little while. To some people, the crime will seem like it happened in a dream."
she is pulling thru slowly and pretty well... but also it got proven wrong... shes holding nothing in hter hands
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Sarah Fan Club... Daniel-Sarah RPF... Lurker Fan Club... Spencer Fan Club...
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megabyte made my avvie... |
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berninabelle
Suspiciously Absent
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
Location: RI
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: So this is how it goes... |
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I've been watching BDJ since the very beginning (before we even knew it was fake) and I have never felt the need to post anything on the forums.
The creators have so far done a great job making sure that the HoO is a completely original religion and I have never been offended by anything that has happened in the series. Until now.
As a former member of what some people would call a cult, and many others would call a "brainwashing cult", I can't believe that there wasn't more effort put in to understanding what the effects of brainwashing are really like. Also, since the characters have so far been very intelligent and able to "solve clues" and "decipher codes", don't you think that the creators would take into account that the cahracters have the common sense to do some research?
Deprogramming is NOT a program. In fact, it isn't even a science or a medicinal practice. Deprogramming is brainwashing light - it does not get rid of the brainwashing you have endured, it overrides it and brainwashes you into behaving like you are normal again, but you are permanently scarred.
The only exception to this is when the person voluntarily offers themselves to be "deprogrammed". However, this isn't really deprogramming at all because in these cases the person who needs deprogramming wasn't ever really programmed, just convinced.
It seems to me that Bree is not volunteering for anything and althought she looks as though she is getting better, she is really only creating a new mask to hide her tormented self.
The truth is, the best thing to do for someone who has been "brainwashed" is to treat them like a normal human being.
All of this attention - the force, the fawning all over her, the teasing, the touching -STOP IT! You're making it worse by treating her like she's sick when she KNOWS she isn't.
If she is not listening - talk about something you don't care if she hears. tell stories in her vacinity, keep the news on, let her stare out that window until she gets bored. My family did what they called the "trash test" when I came home. Every morning, they would ask me to take out the trash. Mostly I wasn't listening, but one day I heard them and decided I might as well fucking do it and I went and took out the damned trash.
They knew I was listening so they started to give me more simple tasks, things that you would expect the daughter in a house to do (wash the dishes, fold the laundry, turn off the radio) I eventually got back in to my old routine and was talking and listening to people again.
THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT TIME! it is possible that Bree is really just convinced by the HoO and not brainwashed, and the only time to start talking to her about it is after she has brought herself back into your life. Please don't say anything outright AWFUl about them. Don't say "they aren't real" don't say "they killed your father" don't even say "oh aren't they so silly to think that there is sucha thing as an eternal song?". The point of this period is to let her know some facts she may not have known - I say contact Alex? or maybe try to find Tachyon (someone who can reveal some of the mysteries)- and say things like "did you know that in 1971 Dr. blah blah blah found blah blah and the order was involved?"
Hopefully random facts will get her talking, she'll be ready to talk to you about it, and then you can start using LOGIC NOT EMOTION to get her back to reality. It is important that she does this on her own. If she doesn't, I swear to you you are only brainwashing her more.
That's all. I know that this whole thing is "just an internet thing" but there are some things that shouldn't be dealt with lightly- especially with such a wide audience - and I believe this is one of them. |
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joygasm
Thor's Hammer
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 1071
Location: Lurker's Bed
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Charles Phoenix wrote: | | joygasm wrote: | | belu214 wrote: | | I think she has the bird that Jonas used to make her smile. Thats cute if she brought it over becasue she likes that he was able to make her smile/happy with it and maybe wants Jonas to do it again, like a child with a toy. |
Talk about regression! That's what my 2 year old daughter does. |
some symptoms of part of what Bree is going thru
"Victims may experience shock, disbelief, and/or denial. Many victims will find it difficult to believe (or know) that they became the victim of a crime, or they may pretend that it did not happen at all. This may last for only a few moments or it may go on for months — even years. Victims often assume a more "childlike" state, and may need to be taken care of by others, at least for a little while. To some people, the crime will seem like it happened in a dream."
she is pulling thru slowly and pretty well... but also it got proven wrong... shes holding nothing in hter hands |
My statement was written towards the idea of belu had. It was pretty much stating that her bringing the bird back in order to get Jonas to make it talk again would be going WAY back. I'm really not quite sure if you were meaning to quote my reply or the OP's, I'm glad you re-posted the quote that was posted in the last video's thread. Some one may not have read it there. It's also nice of you to reiterate that it was proven wrong. Someone may have missed that 6 posts up.
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I  Lurker!! He is my King.  I bow to no other.
You other girls better back it up! He is mine! Just ask him!! |
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kneeleigh
Casual Observer
Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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It's official.
I love Jonas.
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"It's a whole new year, 2007. Girls have rights. " |
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watching_watchers
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 7007
Location: I'm like the wind..I'm everywhere!
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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New video yet? =[
_________________
"Would you rather be dumber than you look or look dumber than you are?" -Jonas
"Do I look like the kind of girl who wears socks?" -Sarah
The Hymn of One is fun!
Hooray for Orange Slurpees!
Go to my YouTube! http://www.youtube.com/xshibbiex |
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saralynn
Lonely Fan
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 227
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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1) Daniel needs to cut his hair. You know I love you Youself, but you're borderline mullet here. Srsly.
2) Now we know Jonas is a good dancer.
3) Sarah is dumb.
4) WHAT
Looks like they're making slow progress, but the final scene was like UMM, OH HI NORMAL BREE?
I'm not a chat person so, I'll have to catch up with that later. Did she have a relapse or what? |
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MintyBeast
Lonely Fan
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 237
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| matsie wrote: | | I believe they said they did some research on deprogramming, right? Well, if they had, they would have found out that you have to establish a personal relationship with the deprogrammee. Jonas was doing that by making her laugh and getting her to open up. So that would help deprogram her and DB and Jonas should have both realized that had they done and research to begin with. |
Yes, but I do not belive that that was Jonas's main objective. His "Huh?" kinda proves that. He just wanted to be with Bree, it wasn't really about the big picture.
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matsie
Casual Observer
Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 99
Location: Detroit, MI/New Orleans, LA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| MintyBeast wrote: | | matsie wrote: | | I believe they said they did some research on deprogramming, right? Well, if they had, they would have found out that you have to establish a personal relationship with the deprogrammee. Jonas was doing that by making her laugh and getting her to open up. So that would help deprogram her and DB and Jonas should have both realized that had they done and research to begin with. |
Yes, but I do not belive that that was Jonas's main objective. His "Huh?" kinda proves that. He just wanted to be with Bree, it wasn't really about the big picture. |
Perhaps his train of thought wasn't exactly "establish personal relationship >> okay, I'll make her laugh!". But I still think he was trying to break her from her delusion. I'm not sure why it's even a question that he was doing that. That was the whole point of their talking to Bree.
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Faye: I would also totally kick Conor Oberst's ass just for having that ridiculous hairdo.
Marten: Is that the guy from Bright Eyes? I always confuse him with Winona Ryder. |
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JustAnotherLonelyGirl.
P. Monkey's Agent
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 2094
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| _ecstasy. wrote: | im hoping this will be like a fairy tale, sleeping beauty thing.
Prince charming (Jonas) has got to kiss the princess (Bree) to snap her out of the spell 
+everyone will get the kiss they've all been waiting for. |
aww, that's cute. you're adorable. i like you. 
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"Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof."
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