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Lonelygirl15
Forum to post messages about Bree and Danielbeast
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Inigo
Devoted Fan
Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Someplace IŽd not rather be
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 Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think Bree knows what the ceremony is at all... remember she was just convinced by Daniel that she shouldn't do it. |
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Lurker
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Inigo wrote: | | I don't think Bree knows what the ceremony is at all... remember she was just convinced by Daniel that she shouldn't do it. |
Daniel and Gemma both. And that was an occasion where Gemma's story was apparently true, since Tachyon confirmed it. |
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TheeBerean
Lonely Fan
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 192
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Lurker wrote: | | corndog2000 wrote: | Lurker, I think you're kind of missing the point.
Let's just put aside for a moment the grasping-at-straws reveal of Jules as the new girl. As far as I can tell, that sloppiness was the story's fault, not BDJ's. |
I don't think I'm missing the point. TheeBerean seemed to be questioning this mainly conceptually or morally, not in terms of plot mechanics or storytelling technique. |
If I wasn't clear, I meant to call both into question. It is morally disturbing to see the "good guys" casually blogging while a young girl is hog-tied, laying on the ground and beating on a window begging/screaming for help... No matter what they say their intentions are, only their behavior can be examined.
By way of plot and storytelling, the Creators did NOTHING to set this up. In a truly dire circumstance, I could see this happening as an evil neccessity. But here we have Bree & Co. chilling in a bunker (where they find NO info to share) and suddenly 3 or 4 videos later they are kidnapping a young girl. They utterly failed to convince us that this makes sense in their storyline.
Now... how can they bring it out of this?? If they post a video of Bree looking at the camera with sad eyes saying... "I know you really mean people on the forum yelled at me but we just had to do it because, we're the good guys and we just had too" or we suddenly see Jules "converted" and ready to fight the Order over night... that's just a pathetic resolution. There really is no satisfactory resolution to this unless its for the sake of setting up one of the following unlilkely scenarios:
A.) To intentionally make the audience hate/despise/dislike/distrust Bree
B.) To show that Bree has been compromised by the Order and is suffering side effects from the brainwashing in Vegas
C.) To get Jonas to admit he is too pretty to go to Jail.
There are some shows (the new Battlestar Galactica, for example) that do a good job at examining what each of us would be capable of if we were faced with unthinkable situations. If this is what LG15 was trying to do though, it was utterly unbelievable.
So far, they have done nothing but make us watch a scared little girl get tied up and drug from her home. Uncreative and unacceptable.
~tb
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Broken Kid
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 5276
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| TheeBerean wrote: | | Now... how can they bring it out of this?? If they post a video of Bree looking at the camera with sad eyes saying... "I know you really mean people on the forum yelled at me but we just had to do it because, we're the good guys and we just had too" or we suddenly see Jules "converted" and ready to fight the Order over night... that's just a pathetic resolution. There really is no satisfactory resolution to this unless its for the sake of setting up one of the following unlilkely scenarios: |
I think there are some ways they can make it make more sense after the fact. For example, if they come out and explain to us what happens during the ceremony (perhaps Bree discovered it when training with Tachyon, which would explain why she didn't know it back in the old days?), it might explain their immediate action. If we see a private video from the Order saying that the ceremony is about to take place, it might make more sense.
I agree that some explanation beforehand would have made more sense. And the comments people have made about other ways to get to Julia that make more sense (such as through Taylor) are true. But if we discover later that this was their only chance, then I'd buy it.
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Lurker
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| TheeBerean wrote: | | By way of plot and storytelling, the Creators did NOTHING to set this up. |
I think they may have, but it just wasn't as big and obvious as what we're used to. I really hope the thing about Jules' restrictions was to give us an idea of when the ceremony was supposed to happen with her.
If that was the intent, then the whole thing works. At the very least, if it's what Bree thought it meant, it works.
I'm with BK on a thorough explanation after the fact still being able to work. |
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JustAnotherLonelyGirl.
P. Monkey's Agent
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 2094
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to have to defend the Creators, even though I do see how stupid this would be in real life.
For the sake of series, I'm hoping this will lead us to some answers.
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sanguine105
Casual Observer
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Lurker"] | immortal1 wrote: | 1) She has not been confirmed as the new girl. She's only met the requirements on NikkiB's checklist.
Come on, Nikki's list was totally legit!
No, but seriously, I think there's a lot of hints to go on. We've got her learning some language that she wouldn't name but expected nobody to know, we've got her not being able to eat anything she wants, believing she has some special purpose, and quoting Crowley/receiving the Hymn of One's newsletter. Oh, and she fits the map on Lucy's computer from way back in the day (she moved from Zavalla, Texas last year - probably relatively late in the year since they still have unpacked boxes). There had also been a map for Bree's area on that computer.
I know it's not air tight, but there's enough hinting at it that I think it's fair to say they have the right girl. At the very least, she's definitely in the Hymn of One. |
1. she's young. maybe she was speaking about some sort of language from a different country that isn't as common as French or Spanish.
2. maybe she has food allergies we're not aware of.
3. maybe she came across Crowley's quote because she lives in Crowley now and like a younger version of Bree, she is curious and likes to research things.
4. Wasn't Taylor/Sarah around there too? I think Jules may not be the New Girl at all. |
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garnet
Lonely Fan
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 188
Location: Jolly Olde England
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Lurker wrote: | | TheeBerean wrote: | | By way of plot and storytelling, the Creators did NOTHING to set this up. |
I think they may have, but it just wasn't as big and obvious as what we're used to. I really hope the thing about Jules' restrictions was to give us an idea of when the ceremony was supposed to happen with her.
If that was the intent, then the whole thing works. At the very least, if it's what Bree thought it meant, it works.
I'm with BK on a thorough explanation after the fact still being able to work. |
Sometimes a thorough explaination after the fact is better. How boring would it be to have a video explaining their plan, then another video with them executing the plan and everything going as planned!?
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rupaZer0
Lonely Fan
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 205
Location: Rotherham, UK
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:06 am Post subject: |
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As much as I'm enjoying criticising Bree in-character, I think as far as storyline goes this is quite plausible.
Personally, I see the storyline lately as having been about the flexibility of good guy, bad guy. The order has proper evil elements, but we have reason to believe that parts of it are benevolent, if perhaps naive. Bree's Dad is not an evil character, yet he was an avid member of the order. BDJ are meant to be the good guys but when push comes to shove they commit the same sins as the order does. Both sides are acting out of desperation and delusion.
If it comes to pass that we end up in a position whereby good and evil are irrelevant, then great! It's about time we graduated from the 'Disney justice' mentality, where the bad are bad because they cause harm, but the good are justified in using harm to fight the bad.
In the Real World, no-one is inherently bad or good. It's the actions we commit that are judged in this way. Seeing our beloved Bree doing things that are just plain wrong should teach us this.
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EmiB
Casual Observer
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 43
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Lurker wrote: | | Let it play out, TheeBerean. The fact that the kids are resorting to the same kind of measures as the bad guys may be to make a particular point in that respect, or it might just be intended to emphasize how far Bree is willing to go (and how far the Order has driven them). |
I totally agree with the "Let it play out" mindset.
I think that many of LG15's viewers are quick to jump the gun and undercut everything before we let the new plot unravel.
And I also think this was set up to an extent, although I agree not fully set up. We know how extreme Bree gets...we all saw when Jonas was tied to a chair for quite some time, and this is a very similar action.
I think that the Creators are trying really hard to walk the line between realism & timeliness vs. excitement that we've all be craving (and complaining) about.
I'll wait around this time to see how it plays out, after all they had a change in creative direction, and hopefully there will be a payoff--if not, then I will join the complainers. |
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aran384
Suspiciously Absent
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| EmiB wrote: | | Lurker wrote: | | Let it play out, TheeBerean. The fact that the kids are resorting to the same kind of measures as the bad guys may be to make a particular point in that respect, or it might just be intended to emphasize how far Bree is willing to go (and how far the Order has driven them). |
I totally agree with the "Let it play out" mindset.
I think that many of LG15's viewers are quick to jump the gun and undercut everything before we let the new plot unravel.
And I also think this was set up to an extent, although I agree not fully set up. We know how extreme Bree gets...we all saw when Jonas was tied to a chair for quite some time, and this is a very similar action.
I think that the Creators are trying really hard to walk the line between realism & timeliness vs. excitement that we've all be craving (and complaining) about.
I'll wait around this time to see how it plays out, after all they had a change in creative direction, and hopefully there will be a payoff--if not, then I will join the complainers. |
That's a bit presumptuous, what you claim about people undercutting. Many of us have been defending and letting it play out since september. Don't be so quick to judge people just because they don't care how the story is unfolding. I really think you labeling people as complainers is extremely insulting.
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Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: |
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aran384
Suspiciously Absent
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Kidnapping children doesn't happen all the time???? I'd LOVE to live in YOUR country! Come to the USA sometime and look on a milk carton or on a flyer anywhere or in your mail!
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