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HyeMew
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:34 am    Post subject: Why? Reply with quote

There are pages and pages of video episodes related to this issue, so too much to read. I just want to bring up something which might have been brought up before, and that is why the heck is this about sex now?

This is my problem- 1. this used to be a PG show aimed at all ages, but now it's getting more into adult drama situations.

2. When we first saw Jonas in bed, most of us who thoguht we knew Bree well thought it was just him over-reacting to a good make-out session. After all, this is Bree we are talking about. You know, the most innocent girl on the block only a few months ago. Even if you are eager to dispense with that "lonely innocent girl" reputation, still... this girl has kissed Daniel like once and Jonas maybe twice in the past. For this to suddenly turn into sex for Bree, one of the most unlikely people to ever be jumping right from first or second base to home, is not only way out of character but a real betrayal of those of us who fell in love with innocent Bree.

3. I know I know, times change and I should change with them, and I'm just some old-time stick in the mud who can't deal with the new Bree. Maybe so, but this whole sex bit was so out of left field that episodes later people still have a hard time thinking it actually was sex because of how utterly random and unlikely it was, and that really is what my problem is with. I was holding out hope that Sarah had just jumped to conclusions, but Jonas's grammatically incorrect letter regarding his "first time" on top of "everybody does it" before it all but confirms it (I mean, he couldn't mean his first time making out...). Anyway I won't go on because I actually want people to read this, but if you are a fellow fan with the same concerns as me please let us know here, because I am sure I am not alone.
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Libra
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely agree with you. And if you have more thoughts about this you should post them.

I wrote a post about my concerns in the plot discussion. I didn't mention anything about Bree there though. I loved the innocent Bree. Now I'm just disgusted with her. It was so out of character that it did feel like a betrayal the way HyeMew describes it.

You aren't alone. I've seen a bunch of others agree in other topics.
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Esteed
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing you have to remember is that this is not the Bree we know. This is the Bree that was the victim of some serious brainwashing by the HoO. Before she went along with it because she didn't know any better. When she was presented with the evidence of the truth, she accepted it. This brainwashed Bree would not acknowledge anything that didn't fit with her psychological programming.

I don't think it's at all unlikely that this new brainwashed Bree would use even the most drastic means necessary to escape, if it meant getting back to the HoO.
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girlnextdoor
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm agreed too, I didn't even think they'd slept together until Sarah was talking about sex. It didn't even come into my head that sex would be a part of LG15.

I think things have changed too much; they're distracting us from the real storylines.
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Killthesmiley
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Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think they are distracting us, but using sex as a distraction from the actual goal here.

anyways, I think we need to face the fact and realize that the characters are growing up in front of our eyes, and with their growth, the situations will become more and more mature. While, yes, in the beginning Bree began as a typical childish 15/16 year old, she has been through a lot emotional, which would build maturity.

Hence, mature subjects.
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girlnextdoor
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Killthesmiley wrote:
I don't think they are distracting us, but using sex as a distraction from the actual goal here.

anyways, I think we need to face the fact and realize that the characters are growing up in front of our eyes, and with their growth, the situations will become more and more mature. While, yes, in the beginning Bree began as a typical childish 15/16 year old, she has been through a lot emotional, which would build maturity.

Hence, mature subjects.


Yeah that first sentence is what I meant, didn't articulate that well enough.

I guess you're right but I just think that most of the situations that are coming to light are just fillers, and although I think it's obviously difficult to produce decent videos so quickly, the fans expect a bit more. For instance, the video a little while back 'Science Proved Nothing' - that's pointless!

I think it's just time we learnt a little more about the Order and so on...
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally have no problems with sex as a plot element. Even were this is a PG program (I believe the C's have said they want to shoot for PG-13, actually), you get this many teenagers together, something's going to happen. It would be unrealistic if it didn't.

As far as it being Bree and Jonas having the sex, though or Bree and anyone for that matter that was definitely surprising. But like Daniel's said, the person they had with them was not the real Bree. This is Hymn of One Bree, and for her this is apparently not as big of a deal. Maybe it was even the plan all along.
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HyeMew
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Killthesmiley wrote:
anyways, I think we need to face the fact and realize that the characters are growing up in front of our eyes, and with their growth, the situations will become more and more mature. While, yes, in the beginning Bree began as a typical childish 15/16 year old, she has been through a lot emotional, which would build maturity.

Hence, mature subjects.


Does maturity mean going from having kissed someone like 3 times ever to suddenly having reckless sex? That's definitely not mature to begin with, and second of all do movies start off with a PG rating but then switch to PG-13 or R halfway through, resulting in viewers under 13 or 17 having to get up and walk out only seeing half the story? No? Then why should there be such a massive (and sudden) change in the LG series? Suddenly the characters are sleeping with each other, talking about all the places they have sex, and prancing around with dominatrix whips. Maturity is a process, and a long one, not something you just thrust on your viewers, many of whom are still young kids, within the last two weeks.

Also, to the person who suggested this is a different Bree who behaves much different because she's brainwashed by the Order... you are forgetting that ultimately, the Creators control Bree, not the HoOrder. Just because the HoO might have turned her mature and coerced her to go have sex and things like that, doesn't mean that's the way it has to be. The Creators could have created the HoO to get her to do things but not have to have sex a part of the equation at all.

And if the HoO actually sent Bree out to lose her virginity for some aspect of the ceremony and then return to them, hence her disappearance, well then that's just disgusting.
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Killthesmiley
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does maturity mean going from having kissed someone like 3 times ever to suddenly having reckless sex? That's definitely not mature to begin with, and second of all do movies start off with a PG rating but then switch to PG-13 or R halfway through, resulting in viewers under 13 or 17 having to get up and walk out only seeing half the story? No? Then why should there be such a massive (and sudden) change in the LG series?


Now I didn't say it was a mature action, I said it was a mature situation. While it is reckless, it does happen, and I think that is a clear distinction you have to make. While it's not a mature action, it's a mature situation.

Second of all, compairing Lonelygirl15 to a movie, is a reckless action, and shows a complete lack of understanding of the way entertainment ratings work. This is more so a Show if anything, and in fact shows DO switch ratings very often, from PG to G to PG13 to R. It's a very common practice.
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tigerlilylynn
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt the point is to get her to lose her virginity. I think HoO!Bree used it as a tool for her new brainwashed goals.

I think the creators were using this drastic change in character to prove how different she is under the order's control. Since nothing was shown an it's only been discussed it is well within the rating range of PG-13.

As for character consistency; it's been poor with Bree. She was really brainy, then Bretard became a trendy new web term. At least this change has a written-in excuse.
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Renegade
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow...the forums are more similar to the series than I thought...didn't we have this thread arc last week?
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Killthesmiley
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Renegade wrote:
Wow...the forums are more similar to the series than I thought...didn't we have this thread arc last week?


yea we get one once a week.

I would also like to add, that the "rating" change has be pretty gradual. If you want to talk about ratings, you will have to look at run away, guns, violence, stalking, drinking, brainwashing, perscription drug use, cult, relationship, breaking and entering, spring breaking in mexico..


really...it's a gradual climb if you look at it in it's entirety.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HyeMew wrote:
... do movies start off with a PG rating but then switch to PG-13 or R halfway through, resulting in viewers under 13 or 17 having to get up and walk out only seeing half the story? No? Then why should there be such a massive (and sudden) change in the LG series?


Like Kelly said, ongoing series do get rating changes. For that matter, though, R-rated films typically don't start out with someone getting a hole blown through their head or a gratuitous sex scene.

Even materials directed to (hopefully) more mature audiences may start out a certain way and change in tone as things progress.
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Luminous
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HyeMew wrote:

Does maturity mean going from having kissed someone like 3 times ever to suddenly having reckless sex? That's definitely not mature to begin with, and second of all do movies start off with a PG rating but then switch to PG-13 or R halfway through, resulting in viewers under 13 or 17 having to get up and walk out only seeing half the story? No? Then why should there be such a massive (and sudden) change in the LG series? Suddenly the characters are sleeping with each other, talking about all the places they have sex, and prancing around with dominatrix whips. Maturity is a process, and a long one, not something you just thrust on your viewers, many of whom are still young kids, within the last two weeks.


I'm totally with you on this one HyeMew, and people who share these views shouldn't have to apologize for it.
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Lola
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Joined: 02 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think for me the recent events show another missed opportunity for emotional growth of the characters. Bree's first time (or Jonas' for that matter) is a big deal. It's both possible and interesting that the innocent Bree we were first introduced to goes through a series of life changing, traumatic events and finds herself in a place where she decides to have sex for the first time. The "Swimming" video was one of the best in the series because of the "male gaze" of a beautiful young girl. It was potent and rich with longing. It's a dissapointment that this seed hasn't been nurtured in a way to make Bree's first time more involving.

We can say this is a brainwashed Bree but really that's just a good guess/excuse as we don't really know anything about HoO or their need for Bree. What could be an important piece of character development becomes kitschy titillation from Sarah and Taylor. How much more interesting would it have been to see "Swimming" develop into "Bree's First Kiss" develop into her first real sexual encounter for all the right and all the wrong reasons.
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