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milowent
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think the idea that bree and jonas had sex is absolutely ludicrous.

we can hold out hope that the answer to the question of whether bree and jonas actually slept together is not yet decided. remember, bree did the ceremony before she didn't do the ceremony.
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Rekidk
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bree is brainwashed. She's not the Bree we know.

'Nuff said.

---

Besides, this is all very PG-13. I'm a 15-year-old male, and I haven't seen anything that I'd be uncomfortable with my parents knowing I watch.

I've seen far worse in a PG-13 movie before.
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consideration
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Creators have a thing for making us hate these characters. They're really good at it, too.
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onsweetavenue
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my say

1. this show was never meant for 10 year old kids except maybe in the first 5 episodes. THe maturity level wasn't always about sex and violence but about the difficulty in following the episodes and the puzzles and storyline complexity required you be about high school age at least. Most of us are older here and the creators know it.

2. There is nothing obscene here. The characters just had sex, and all that was caught on camera was a bit of kissing. And nothign has been directly said like "we had sex all night". Nothing, just insinuations a young child wouldn't get.

3. As for Sara, first, she's never been a role model. Second, she didn't show any sex going on, she just talked about it and was quick to explain why she did it with her parents at the end.

If you are 13 this is not going to affect you in a negative way. At 13 you already know what sex is and that people have it. People regard young teens as far too innocent and easily impressionable. If you are mature enough to be able to follow this story you are mature enough to understand the sex plots in the story.


I find it hard to understand why this show was PG-13 when people were getting kidnapped and brainwashed and Daniel was drinking himself into a stuper but suddenly the word "sex" is said on camera and that's too grown up. I think this story has always had adult themes, and I dont' place sex, the way it has been dealt with now, as something that crosses a line.
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immortal1
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is one of the best threads I've read in a while on here, my thoughts:

1) You can't have a teen angst adventure gang without the teen angst. Problem is instead of subtley layering it in over a period of time they just hammer it in every day for a week. This week has been too primetime teen soap.

2) The character development of Taylor hasn't been subtle either. We started with a tomboy soccer player who we only ever saw in her soccer uniform to a hickey revealing dominatrix hacker. An image that I actually found disturbing.

3) If we're talking Bree's first time there is a huge opportunity for it to have emotional resonance. So much of this week has reminded me of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. First with the statutory issues. On Buffy they handled it by making it pretty much the worst first time experience ever by having her boyfriend turn evil! But also Buffy provided to me what was a huge missed opportunity for a character to go through a serious realistic emotional process when Willow turned gay. They sort of portrayed it like she met the right girl and it awoke something in her, while conversely on Dawson's Creek, Jack had this huge emotional roller coaster as he struggled with his sexuality.

The week is not over so I don't know if we can properly talk about teen angst soap week until the dust settlles.
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HyeMew
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Joined: 08 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rekidk wrote:
Bree is brainwashed. She's not the Bree we know.

'Nuff said.


Well this is disturbing in itself because it implies Bree is not doing things under her own power or consent, including sex. This is akin to rape in my mind.

Immortal1 had three very good points as well. I don't know what I'm more angry about, that this suddenly turned into the BreeSex show or the way it was so suddenly thrust upon us. Such a huge moment in her life should have at least been built up to in some way, and dealt with maturely, not by hitting us over the with it out of nowhere with Jonas smiling in her bed. It was just so out of left field and without warning that it left everyone wondering IF they even really did have sex, only to have it confirmed to us by their slutty friend and her dominatrix sister. It's all more strange than "mature".
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ApotheosisAZ
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milowent wrote:
i think the idea that bree and jonas had sex is absolutely ludicrous.

we can hold out hope that the answer to the question of whether bree and jonas actually slept together is not yet decided. remember, bree did the ceremony before she didn't do the ceremony.


I'm inclined to agree with milo here.

Jonas' vid is suggestive and obviously written in a style to make everyone believe he and Bree are lovers. Sarah's video suggests that the coupling occured, but she doesn't know; she is basing her assumption on Jonas' video. Jonas' e-mail is just another second-hand piece of information provided by Taylor.

The only characters who know for sure are Bree and Jonas. Jonas hasn't come forward and stated that he and Bree made love; neither has Bree.
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tigerlilylynn
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

their slutty friend and her dominatrix sister

Careful sugar. You sound like you may have issues with women having F U N there.
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HyeMew
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tigerlilylynn wrote:
their slutty friend and her dominatrix sister

Careful sugar. You sound like you may have issues with women having F U N there.


Nobody calls me sugar.
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TOSG
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind in and of itself that the story has taken on a sexual tone lately. However, Bree's 180 on all matters sexual (anyone remember her "My First Kiss" video? ("I pretty much spend all day trying to avoid other people's spit.")) is totally unbelievable.

I just hope that this is something that will be accounted for in the plot, and not just sloppy writing.
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Last edited by TOSG on Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

immortal1 wrote:
This is one of the best threads I've read in a while on here, my thoughts:

1) You can't have a teen angst adventure gang without the teen angst. Problem is instead of subtley layering it in over a period of time they just hammer it in every day for a week. This week has been too primetime teen soap.


To be honest, I didn't feel like this was jarring at all. There's been tons of angst up to now, and I'm surprised there wasn't sex before this point.

immortal1 wrote:
2) The character development of Taylor hasn't been subtle either.


This is true. She's made a couple of unexpected leaps, but I do have to say I'm pleased with them. They've made her more interesting.

immortal1 wrote:
We started with a tomboy soccer player who we only ever saw in her soccer uniform to a hickey revealing dominatrix hacker. An image that I actually found disturbing.


Ya disappoint me.

ApotheosisAZ wrote:
Jonas' vid is suggestive and obviously written in a style to make everyone believe he and Bree are lovers. Sarah's video suggests that the coupling occured, but she doesn't know; she is basing her assumption on Jonas' video. Jonas' e-mail is just another second-hand piece of information provided by Taylor.


Well, Jonas' e-mail contains his own words, so it's not secondhand in the sense that it's being paraphrased. Also, Sarah said that she knew beyond any doubt that the tidbit about Bree being his first was true. She said that secrets don't stay secret in a small group like theirs, which would imply that it was said to her.
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longlostposter
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's done is done.

Personally, I think it may have been Bree's assignment to sleep with Jonas, for whatever reason...perhaps to become impregnated by him to bring more trait positive immortal Order babies into the world.
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chippercat
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One could also consider that possibly this is some kind of plot twist... A set up by Bree and Jonas... to make her less desireable for the order.

I just have a hard time believing this recent turn of events could be the real plot...

Where would they possibly go from here?

The behavior is so out of character for both Bree and Jonas.

I want to think the creators are setting something up.

I think we should wait a bit before we get too upset...
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Rekidk
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm inclined to agree with chippercat. There's been filming done in advance, so something's going to happen that we don't know about. The question is: What?
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curiousGeorge
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've posted this ad nauseum but here we go again:

The implications and suggestions (and that's all they are) are just a part of the sexing up of the project. You only need to review the video titles to see that this is what they are up to.

To what end they are headed with this, I don't really know. Sex sells. It's the LCD on YouTube and everywhere else. It's EASY to write this into a storyline and know that it will get a huge response. They have distracted everyone from complaining about the nonsensical plot ,but this can only last so long...

My suspicion is that other commitments (or even just auditions) by Jess are influencing her ability to be in the production so they have to resort to this kind of thing to keep the phans from being distracted by her frequent absences. That or they are trying to buy themselves some time to write themselves out of all the many nagging plot problems they have...

The launch of KM is imminent and they need to keep the eyeball counts up on YT to keep the new investors/customer "happy". What better way to do this than to bombard the viewers with sexually suggestive titles and content, guaranteed to create as stir even if it is not at all in keeping with the characters or the plot.

Bottom line is that trying to anticipate or analyze this is very difficult because they are many external forces at work on the plot, none of which make any kind of sense from the POV of a traditional narrative or character development. This is nothing new, we have seen this many times from these guys. Supposed plot developments are driven by the meta and hence make no sense in the context of past material. (OpA and Tachyon just vanish...)

Obviously, I find this the most egregious example and think it is horrid and most unwelcome development. I also think that it will be negated at some point, probably in a way that will leave most everybody unsatisfied with the explanation.
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