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Lonelygirl15
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lordgreystoke422
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Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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Location: Metairie(New Orleans)
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 Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: Calling All Thelemites |
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I would like any of our resident Thelemites to chime in please.
It seems almost definite that Brees religion must be related to Thelema at the very least. What strikes me is that based on my readings of Thelema, the way in which Bree has been handled by her parents and the way they have interacted with Daniel has been different than how a parent practicing this faith would act.
Can any of you with TRUE experience in this faith shed light on this for us?
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Sfonzarelli
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Joined: 18 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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My true experience with the "faith" of Thelema is that it is not commonly a "faith" practiced by home-owning middle-aged suburban nuclear parents of teenage daughters. It's kind of a joke - It makes absolutely no sense, that's why it's funny. It'd be like if there were fake videos of The Pope and he was a typical pothead teenage slacker.
Edit: However, if they're just invoking Aleister Crowley as shorthand for "BWAA SATANISM", than I'd say it's fairly likely the creators have no idea what they are talking about. I doubt that's the case.
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tannhaus
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| Sfonzarelli wrote: | My true experience with the "faith" of Thelema is that it is not commonly a "faith" practiced by home-owning middle-aged suburban nuclear parents of teenage daughters. It's kind of a joke - It makes absolutely no sense, that's why it's funny. It'd be like if there were fake videos of The Pope and he was a typical pothead teenage slacker.
Edit: However, if they're just invoking Aleister Crowley as shorthand for "BWAA SATANISM", than I'd say it's fairly likely the creators have no idea what they are talking about. I doubt that's the case. |
As a thelemite, I will disagree on both points.
First, there are many thelemites with children. There are many thelemites with teenage children. Thelemites are of all ages and all backgrounds. One of the most vocal scholars of Thelema is Lon Milo Duquette. You can see him here: http://www.ashe-prem.org/five/duquette.shtml
Yes...he's an old man.
Also, as a thelemite, I'd have to say that no matter what, it appears the creators have no idea what they're talking about. The videos so far have proven that. |
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lordgreystoke422
Thor's Hammer
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 1070
Location: Metairie(New Orleans)
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| tannhaus wrote: | | Sfonzarelli wrote: | My true experience with the "faith" of Thelema is that it is not commonly a "faith" practiced by home-owning middle-aged suburban nuclear parents of teenage daughters. It's kind of a joke - It makes absolutely no sense, that's why it's funny. It'd be like if there were fake videos of The Pope and he was a typical pothead teenage slacker.
Edit: However, if they're just invoking Aleister Crowley as shorthand for "BWAA SATANISM", than I'd say it's fairly likely the creators have no idea what they are talking about. I doubt that's the case. |
As a thelemite, I will disagree on both points.
First, there are many thelemites with children. There are many thelemites with teenage children. Thelemites are of all ages and all backgrounds. One of the most vocal scholars of Thelema is Lon Milo Duquette. You can see him here: http://www.ashe-prem.org/five/duquette.shtml
Yes...he's an old man.
Also, as a thelemite, I'd have to say that no matter what, it appears the creators have no idea what they're talking about. The videos so far have proven that. |
Pardon me Tannhaus..but...so far you haven't proven that you know what you are talking about either. TELL us where they are going wrong..tell us the similarities..give us specifics..please don't paint with the broad brush.
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tannhaus
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| lordgreystoke422 wrote: | | Pardon me Tannhaus..but...so far you haven't proven that you know what you are talking about either. TELL us where they are going wrong..tell us the similarities..give us specifics..please don't paint with the broad brush. |
Well, I just answered the last poster. But, you want specifics? Ok...just off the top of my head:
1. Bree is homeschooled and kept away from those that believe differently. However, if you look at the reading lists for the A.: A.: (which all thelemic groups suggest people read) or even read the commentary to The Book of the Law, you will find that a great knowledge of comparative religion is needed.
Thelemites do not seclude themselves nor their children from the society around them. No religion has all the truth, but none is totally devoid of truth either. As a thelemite, you have to learn a great deal about other religions.
2. An altar to Crowley
While many thelemites have a picture or pictures of Crowley, he himself expressed horror over the idea that one day people might worship him. He is not held in a worshipful status...and one of the most common statements you will hear about him in a thelemic group is "Crowley is Dead"...especially if someone tries to quote Crowley. The class A documents are inspired....certainly not Crowley's every word. He said plenty of stupid things.
3. The only thelemic group that Bree's parents would not be able to attend an initiation in is the A.: A.: Why? Because A.: A.: initiation is a 1 on 1 experience. Any other organization, as long as her parents have been initiated, they can watch the initiation.
So, the idea that this is a group thing that her parents cannot attend...that this is an organization that will initiate a minor... that's all bogus.
That's just stuff off the top of my head. |
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foolslovehermits
Suspiciously Absent
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'll go ahead and cut and paste something I posted about 2 weeks ago on the other LG forum:
The entire thing screams Hollywood. It's clear that they wanted to add some spice to the character by making her an unusual and atypical teenager. Incorporating weird occult themes and imagery adds a level of strangeness to her persona. There isn't a single identifiable Thelemic element that bears any resemblance to Thelema as it is practiced in any of these videos. On the contrary, the very idea of strict parents that are thwarting the will of their child runs counter to the philosophy of Thelema.
The people going nuts and digging in everything looking for clues, signs and meaning probably know more about Thelema than the creators do at this point. I'm sure that is a source of amusement for them - it sure would be for me. As a Thelemite of nearly 20 years I find the portrayal of Thelema in these videos to be laughable, although I must admit reading all the dissection and theories people are coming up with is hilarious. |
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tannhaus
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| foolslovehermits wrote: | | As a Thelemite of nearly 20 years I find the portrayal of Thelema in these videos to be laughable, although I must admit reading all the dissection and theories people are coming up with is hilarious. |
As a thelemite of 16 years, I wholeheartedly agree.
I've never seen a thelemic child in a similar situation.
Also, a first initiation is more of a statement of intent...so the idea that she would have to learn a bunch of stuff..including ENOCHIAN of all things...is just ludicrous.
And the idea that she's having problems so they get someone from her group to "counsel" her? THAT is laughable.
It's like they tried to take the evangelical christians and meld them with thelema for these videos.
93 Bro |
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JerseyJohnny
Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| tannhaus wrote: | | foolslovehermits wrote: | | As a Thelemite of nearly 20 years I find the portrayal of Thelema in these videos to be laughable, although I must admit reading all the dissection and theories people are coming up with is hilarious. |
As a thelemite of 16 years, I wholeheartedly agree.
I've never seen a thelemic child in a similar situation.
Also, a first initiation is more of a statement of intent...so the idea that she would have to learn a bunch of stuff..including ENOCHIAN of all things...is just ludicrous.
And the idea that she's having problems so they get someone from her group to "counsel" her? THAT is laughable.
It's like they tried to take the evangelical christians and meld them with thelema for these videos.
93 Bro |
It's interesting to me that all the Thelimates deny anything that us normal people find out about them. It is part of their religion to lie, you know, and they will hide their secrets at any cost, and lying is the easiest thing for them to do.
It's always funny to me when they deny the rituals and baby-sacrifices and virgin sacrifices and ritual sex orjies they have. I mean, of COURSE there going to LIE about it! LOLMAO, does anyone expect them to be like "Oh, OK yeah, you figured it out, we kill babies and eat them, I guess our secret is out!" LOLMAO! Of course they won't admit it becaue then they Goverment will be after them for buying human beings to kill and eat! I don't know if eating them is against the law but buying and killing them sure is!
So tannhaus, sorry, but it's hard to believe you will tell us the truth when you have secrets that you swear to keep and will lie to keep your secrets. |
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tannhaus
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| JerseyJohnny wrote: | It's interesting to me that all the Thelimates deny anything that us normal people find out about them. It is part of their religion to lie, you know, and they will hide their secrets at any cost, and lying is the easiest thing for them to do.
It's always funny to me when they deny the rituals and baby-sacrifices and virgin sacrifices and ritual sex orjies they have. I mean, of COURSE there going to LIE about it! LOLMAO, does anyone expect them to be like "Oh, OK yeah, you figured it out, we kill babies and eat them, I guess our secret is out!" LOLMAO! Of course they won't admit it becaue then they Goverment will be after them for buying human beings to kill and eat! I don't know if eating them is against the law but buying and killing them sure is!
So tannhaus, sorry, but it's hard to believe you will tell us the truth when you have secrets that you swear to keep and will lie to keep your secrets. |
Either you're being facetious or you're actually mentally deranged. I would hope that you're actually joking. |
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foolslovehermits
Suspiciously Absent
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| JerseyJohnny wrote: |
It's always funny to me when they deny the rituals and baby-sacrifices and virgin sacrifices and ritual sex orjies they have. |
You must be joking. While I can't speak for all Thelemites, the idea that there are any Thelemites doing any of these things is ridiculous. Those things are not a part of Thelema. Thelema is not about some delusional Christian fantasy of devil worship or whatever the hell you'd call that sort of criminal behavior. |
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malan89
Suspiciously Absent
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 17
Location: NC, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| tannhaus wrote: | | lordgreystoke422 wrote: | | Pardon me Tannhaus..but...so far you haven't proven that you know what you are talking about either. TELL us where they are going wrong..tell us the similarities..give us specifics..please don't paint with the broad brush. |
Well, I just answered the last poster. But, you want specifics? Ok...just off the top of my head:
1. Bree is homeschooled and kept away from those that believe differently. However, if you look at the reading lists for the A.: A.: (which all thelemic groups suggest people read) or even read the commentary to The Book of the Law, you will find that a great knowledge of comparative religion is needed.
Thelemites do not seclude themselves nor their children from the society around them. No religion has all the truth, but none is totally devoid of truth either. As a thelemite, you have to learn a great deal about other religions.
2. An altar to Crowley
While many thelemites have a picture or pictures of Crowley, he himself expressed horror over the idea that one day people might worship him. He is not held in a worshipful status...and one of the most common statements you will hear about him in a thelemic group is "Crowley is Dead"...especially if someone tries to quote Crowley. The class A documents are inspired....certainly not Crowley's every word. He said plenty of stupid things.
3. The only thelemic group that Bree's parents would not be able to attend an initiation in is the A.: A.: Why? Because A.: A.: initiation is a 1 on 1 experience. Any other organization, as long as her parents have been initiated, they can watch the initiation.
So, the idea that this is a group thing that her parents cannot attend...that this is an organization that will initiate a minor... that's all bogus.
That's just stuff off the top of my head. |
To tannhaus and other Thelemites in this forum--
From what I've heard about the creators past film history (the little they do have) I don't think this is ment to be a proper reflection of real Thelema (if that is what they are trying to make it out to be). They use Crowley to boost the shock factor and make people associate Bree and her family with "devil worship". We all need to remember that this is a HOLLYWOOD PRODUCTION created by the sourse of all evil and bad in our society (lol) CAA. My new theory (I share it with many, many others) is that this is a lead in to a horror movie about Satan worshipers and an evil sect of occulists/thelemites. Kind of like the Da Vinci code for the other side of the aisle. I know we all hope the infamous "creators" wouldn't do such a think to sweet innocent Bree but I'm thinking were gonna see it soon. An quick stop to videos just before the ceremony and ads popping up everywhere for an upcoming movie about a girl sucked in by evil devil worshippers. I certantly hope, for all you REAL thelmites, that your religion/belief system is not battered and sterotyped in the arena of public opinion as Christianity and Scientology already have.
[I apologize for any errors of fact or inaccuracies in my post. I also apologize for my poor spelling and any grammatical errors I made in this post.]
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tannhaus
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Well, judging from how ridiculous the videos already are in their portrayal of Thelema, I can see that this is going to be nothing but an attempt at bashing Thelema.
If that is the case, I think a letter writing campaign to the sponsors would be appropriate and probably forthcoming.
Bashing a religion is wrong...it doesn't matter if it's anti-semitism or anti-Thelema. |
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Broken Kid
Site Admin
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 5276
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| tannhaus wrote: | | Bashing a religion is wrong...it doesn't matter if it's anti-semitism or anti-Thelema. |
I agree!!!
Of course, thelema could be a red herring. After all, it's one of the few clues the creators hit us over the head with (the picture, the stuff on the homepage). They might be laughing at us.
Regardless, even if it is based on thelema, I agree that they're likely fictionalizing this...perhaps creating their own offshoot, one that has an "Order of Denderah" (or "Gecko"!) to fit their own storyline.
I am still doubtful that the videos are going to take a turn as dark as we're all theorizing (ie virgin sacrifice or bloodletting or such).
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kilgoretroutlovesyou
Casual Observer
Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 78
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: |
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No offense to Thelemites, but I don't think The Creators are doing a documentary on Thelema and a Thelemic-Family. The religion is probably a calculated choice, yes. But done so because it is, pardon me but, relatively unknown.
Unknown stuff makes good fiction stuff.
We can't knit-pick it too much.
But on the other hand, we (lame sleuth-bloggers) can't come on posting wild-generalizations about Thelema and not expect to offend true believers. Let's all have good, clean, respectful (but above all, lighthearted) fun.
Remember, all religions are just super. Except for Bhuddism. The only fat god worth worshipping is Santa Claus.
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Sfonzarelli
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Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 580
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Oh, god, the "Thelemites" on this post are embarassing. You guys shound like Jehovah's Witnesses trying to gain recruits. 
Don't you get it? The creators are into Crowley.
| Quote: | | It's like they tried to take the evangelical christians and meld them with thelema for these videos. |
EXACTLY! That's why it's FUNNY. The videos are a JOKE. They are a parody of YouTubers like paytotheorderofofof2 and general Internet culture. They're absurdist comedy. Aleister Crowley was one of the few 19th century European intellectuals who had a sense of humor. I suggest you follow in his footsteps. For example, this is the funniest thing I've ever read on this forum:
| Quote: | It's interesting to me that all the Thelimates deny anything that us normal people find out about them. It is part of their religion to lie, you know, and they will hide their secrets at any cost, and lying is the easiest thing for them to do.
It's always funny to me when they deny the rituals and baby-sacrifices and virgin sacrifices and ritual sex orjies they have. I mean, of COURSE there going to LIE about it! LOLMAO, does anyone expect them to be like "Oh, OK yeah, you figured it out, we kill babies and eat them, I guess our secret is out!" LOLMAO! Of course they won't admit it becaue then they Goverment will be after them for buying human beings to kill and eat! I don't know if eating them is against the law but buying and killing them sure is! |
 That's going in my AOL Instant Messenger profile.
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