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ir3act Casual Observer
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Posts: 33
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm. You're definitely right that each season introduced a villain and each villain was defeated by the season finale. The Master, Angelus, the Mayor, Adam, Glory, the three ineffectuals and the First Evil. But I think Buffy also did a great job of setting things up so that victory didn't mean the end of the story. And I think that was something that tripped up each season of LG15: the creators took the view that winning over the Order would end the series. BUFFY, in contrast, was never afraid of endings and knew that every ending was simply a new beginning.
Season 1 was a clear-cut victory with Buffy dying and coming back to life, but Season 2 ended on Buffy having to kill a de-evilized Angel, Season 3 ended with Angel leaving Buffy, Season 4 ended with the gang discovering that the spell they used to beat Adam and become invincible could never, every be used again. Season 5 ended with Buffy dead. Season 6 - 7 are really the only unqualified victories as Season 8 (in the comics) ended no more new Slayers other than the ones unlocked at the end of Season 7. Each victory brought in a new set of complications.
It's weird that LG15, a very forwardthinking online project, fell into such a dated view of ongoing storytelling. Shows like SUPERNATURAL and BUFFY proved that you can wrap up your arcs and start a new one -- and that equating the longevity of your initial arcs with the longevity of your series will lead to stretching out stories long past any impact and meaning they have. THE X-FILES is a great example of that error in judgement.
The real truth -- the truth that Miles Beckett seemed to miss -- is that Jonas, Sarah, Emma, Daniel, Taylor, Mallory, Gina, Jennie, Tachyon and OPAPHID were infinitely more fascinating and interesting than the Order. If LG15 had maintained its faith in the characters -- that so long as you do videos with these characters trying to understand and engage with the world around them -- the story would never have to end.
It's really sad, and that's why I am so pleased to see LG15 return now and make use of all that untapped potential. I think I only managed to touch a small portion of that potential with my fanfic, because I was ultimately aiming to end the story. A much greater and far more interesting challenge would be to find some way to make LG15 both ongoing, continuing and good, especially at this time when it's been so long since the glory days.
Last edited by ir3act on Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:43 am; edited 2 times in total |
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solostinlost Suspiciously Absent
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Joined: 13 Jul 2007 Posts: 20
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Just finished rewatching Season 1. It was a literal marathon. On to season 2! |
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primaryasset Casual Observer
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Joined: 17 Jun 2016 Posts: 41 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm at the bit where they kidnap Julia and probably cracking up more than I should be. "Legally, it is a little bit wrong" is kiiiiiiind of an understatement there, Bree. And then Jonas just awkwardly apologizes as he loads Julia into their car. I'm finding the parts of this show where they make deeply ridiculous decisions, like uploading their kidnapping of a teenage girl to Youtube, are most enjoyable when you stop questioning the ridiculousness and just laugh. _________________ pass the salt, pour the wine
'cause I'm alright if you're alright |
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ir3act Casual Observer
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Posts: 33
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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I thought it was a really interesting situation -- they know that a ridiculously powerful cult is out to drain Julia of all her blood and they're trying to save her. But the writers hit the problem that at this point, Bree, Daniel and Jonas would not film any of this and they certainly wouldn't upload it. The only way I think the writers could've rationalized it would have been to highlight how the Order will be keeping the authorities out of this situation because they don't want their activities examined.
Ultimately, this is one of many, many points in the series where it became difficult to understand why the characters would film and upload the footage they do while the writers gamely try to brush past it on the grounds that you have to show these events onscreen. But if the events are so utterly opposed to the vlog format, maybe that indicates how the LG15 story had taken a foolish turn into territory it couldn't present on camera effectively or convincingly? |
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JustAnotherLonelyGirl. P. Monkey's Agent
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Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 2094 Location: Boston
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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primaryasset wrote: | I'm at the bit where they kidnap Julia and probably cracking up more than I should be. "Legally, it is a little bit wrong" is kiiiiiiind of an understatement there, Bree. And then Jonas just awkwardly apologizes as he loads Julia into their car. I'm finding the parts of this show where they make deeply ridiculous decisions, like uploading their kidnapping of a teenage girl to Youtube, are most enjoyable when you stop questioning the ridiculousness and just laugh. |
Haha, I just saw the one where Jonas randomly whips a gun out, which he brought with him to the beach, because obviously, and managed to sneak past the US/Mexican border by hiding it under the car seats. LOL. K. _________________ "Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof."
-- V For Vendetta <3 |
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ir3act Casual Observer
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Posts: 33
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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I just remembered the way the whole Jules plot turned out -- why exactly did Bree get in the car with Lucy, the point at which Bree's exit story for the series began?
I don't get it and the series never provided any explanation that I can recall other than the need to free Jessica Lee Rose up to do better paying acting jobs. |
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primaryasset Casual Observer
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Joined: 17 Jun 2016 Posts: 41 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose you could come up with any number of things Lucy might've told Bree to get her to come along. Threatening to hurt Julia, Daniel, or Jonas if Bree didn't go with her probably would've been the easiest way to make that happen.
The limits of the vlogging format and required suspension of disbelief remind me of The Office and Parks and Recreation and how they respectively dealt with their mockumentary format (The Office acknowledging the format more explicitly at times, leading up to the in-universe screening of the actual documentary in the final season, while Parks and Rec decided to forego all that and just use the format without worrying about making the documentary aspect believable). In LG15's case, I guess we're just supposed to go with it. Doesn't make it any less fun to point out how silly it is that they keep posting about where they are, but it doesn't take away from the fun of watching the show for me, either. _________________ pass the salt, pour the wine
'cause I'm alright if you're alright |
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werewolfbitevictim Suspiciously Absent
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Joined: 26 Jun 2016 Posts: 12
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:41 am Post subject: |
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JustAnotherLonelyGirl. wrote: | milowent wrote: | primaryasset wrote: | I've been rewatching, too, and I agree that Daniel's Nice Guy ways are occasionally unbearable in a way they weren't when I was a teenager watching for the first time. I don't think it'll be an issue anymore now, though. I'm pretty sure the last thing on Daniel's mind now that Bree's turned out to be alive is getting into her pants.... |
as someone who watched the show already at age 30 the first time around, i am intrigued to know what y'all rewatching it 10 years later think of it as you get to or approach that age.
Daniel and Jonas' bro-time mostly made me laugh (daniel in a a sombero, good grief), but all the younger female fans swooning over Jonas made me want to puke. do you still go for Jonas or does Daniel grow on you? Asking for a friend. (just kidding, Yousef.) |
Psh... For the record, I preferred Daniel at 16 and still do now. ![Wink](images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) |
I was around 22 when I first watched. I really liked Daniel back then and shrugged off his behavior as a guy not knowing how to handle his emotions, which is pretty common of teenage guys who like a girl and are brushed off by her. I liked him better than Jonas romantically though. perhaps that's because I always like the underdogs. (which re watching seems like he's not hurting too much, Alex, getting drunk at pins and pints/probably hooking up with some girl while drunk, Sarah) I like Jonas more as a character now at 31 than then. the way Daniel acts sometimes makes me annoyed now over back then. Still like him over Jonas romantically though. |
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werewolfbitevictim Suspiciously Absent
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Joined: 26 Jun 2016 Posts: 12
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:58 am Post subject: Season 2? |
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I'm at the season 2 playlist on lonelygirl15's channel and I noticed it is only 90 videos(first season had about double that). I also seem kind of lost after only five videos. Reason being is Emma is already shown with Jonas, Daniel, and Sarah and I remember that happening later in the season. The reason I bring this up is the latest lonelygirl15 video (posted on the 16th) says the old data may be corrupted if they proceed. Do you think that is the reason some of the videos are missing? (maybe to re-emerge later as part of the story?) or is this just a case of all the episodes not being put into the playlist in the first place? possibly just a badly rushed playlist, but I'm curious if anyone else noticed this or had reasoning as to why. |
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LaurenB Suspiciously Absent
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Joined: 26 Jun 2016 Posts: 11 Location: South Florida
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:36 am Post subject: Re: Season 2? |
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werewolfbitevictim wrote: | I'm at the season 2 playlist on lonelygirl15's channel and I noticed it is only 90 videos(first season had about double that). I also seem kind of lost after only five videos. Reason being is Emma is already shown with Jonas, Daniel, and Sarah and I remember that happening later in the season. The reason I bring this up is the latest lonelygirl15 video (posted on the 16th) says the old data may be corrupted if they proceed. Do you think that is the reason some of the videos are missing? (maybe to re-emerge later as part of the story?) or is this just a case of all the episodes not being put into the playlist in the first place? possibly just a badly rushed playlist, but I'm curious if anyone else noticed this or had reasoning as to why. |
I noticed the same. I typed LG15 season 2 hoping that a fan made a playlist and someone made on with 166 videos. Don't know how accurate it is because I'm towards the end of season 1 but the you tuber who made the playlist was Erin C. |
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ir3act Casual Observer
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Posts: 33
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primaryasset Casual Observer
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Joined: 17 Jun 2016 Posts: 41 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:34 am Post subject: |
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The playlists have always been incomplete, in my experience. I don't think I relied on them even when I first got into the show in 2008. I've always used the wiki to get the correct viewing order and just clicked/searched every video manually, even if it takes a while. It's necessary for me, anyway, since I read the wiki for every episode so I can keep up with offscreen developments like the puzzles, in-character chats, etc.
At least it's easier this time than when I started to rewatch a few years back and had to use the Wayback Machine to even get onto the wiki!
(It's occurred to me I could've done us all a favour by beginning to compile a playlist of my own as I started rewatching, but I realized that about 200 videos too late...) _________________ pass the salt, pour the wine
'cause I'm alright if you're alright |
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werewolfbitevictim Suspiciously Absent
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Joined: 26 Jun 2016 Posts: 12
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Darn. I had hoped that I stumbled upon a clue for the new season. ah well. thanks you guys! |
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JustAnotherLonelyGirl. P. Monkey's Agent
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Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 2094 Location: Boston
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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werewolfbitevictim wrote: | JustAnotherLonelyGirl. wrote: | milowent wrote: | primaryasset wrote: | I've been rewatching, too, and I agree that Daniel's Nice Guy ways are occasionally unbearable in a way they weren't when I was a teenager watching for the first time. I don't think it'll be an issue anymore now, though. I'm pretty sure the last thing on Daniel's mind now that Bree's turned out to be alive is getting into her pants.... |
as someone who watched the show already at age 30 the first time around, i am intrigued to know what y'all rewatching it 10 years later think of it as you get to or approach that age.
Daniel and Jonas' bro-time mostly made me laugh (daniel in a a sombero, good grief), but all the younger female fans swooning over Jonas made me want to puke. do you still go for Jonas or does Daniel grow on you? Asking for a friend. (just kidding, Yousef.) |
Psh... For the record, I preferred Daniel at 16 and still do now. ![Wink](images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) |
I was around 22 when I first watched. I really liked Daniel back then and shrugged off his behavior as a guy not knowing how to handle his emotions, which is pretty common of teenage guys who like a girl and are brushed off by her. I liked him better than Jonas romantically though. perhaps that's because I always like the underdogs. (which re watching seems like he's not hurting too much, Alex, getting drunk at pins and pints/probably hooking up with some girl while drunk, Sarah) I like Jonas more as a character now at 31 than then. the way Daniel acts sometimes makes me annoyed now over back then. Still like him over Jonas romantically though. |
I meant looks-wise, I find Yousef more attractive. I do admit that, at least in Season one, Jonas was much more level-headed. But I have always sympathized with Bree when Daniel makes that video about them hooking up. That would turn me off too.
That said, I like Daniel because his role in it makes sense to me. He's there for his friend - later his friends. Jonas somehow plays this bigger role in a sense, being trait positive and all, but he didn't get dragged in out of pure compassion and loyalty like Daniel did. I guess Daniel always felt like the window of the people to me. He's the only one that didn't have some secret or unknown connection to the Order. Kind of like us! =)
Plus, Yousef is hot. ![Laughing](images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) _________________ "Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof."
-- V For Vendetta <3 |
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ir3act Casual Observer
Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Posts: 33
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Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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I reject the idea that I need to choose one character over the other. Daniel and Jonas were/are both great. Jonas is an ideal leading man character with a lot of deep insecurities and internal complexities that belie his good lucks and muscled build. He's thoughtful and caring, but he's also recklessly impulsive and a man of intense passions whose reflexive responses will almost always steer him wrong. He's also stalwart and brave and a natural leader, although the writers' failure to plan ahead their stories always resulted in Jonas seeming ineffectual and incompetent. The truth is that had Jonas been written properly, the Order would have been crippled by the middle of Season 3.
Daniel, in contrast, is an ideal audience identification character. Unlike Jonas, he has a very clear and immediate point-of-view that makes him suited to any story: he's a filmmaker. He observes the world from a third person perspective a lot of the time, he often feels detached and distant from events because he's thinking in terms of how to film them instead of how to live them and his distance occasionally led to drinking heavily. His observation can isolate him, such as when it drove him crazy that Jonas and Bree had an obvious affinity and attraction to each other that they were only holding off on because they knew Daniel would be hurt, leading to a bitter jealousy that Daniel learned to live with because his friendships were more important.
Jonas' psychological issues are very obvious and Glenn Rubenstein left a lot for all subsequent writers to mine: the abandonment issues, the isolation, the feeling that people only used him for his money, the desire to be an alpha male and the knowledge that he's not entirely up to the job. Daniel's issues are more subtle and low key because Yousef Abu Taleb is a more subtle and low-key actor conveying depth and emotion through expression and understated posture whereas Jackson Davis' performance tends to be a sort of intense method acting and he acts with every molecule of his body.
These differences are what made LG15 such a special series and why the characters' friendship was so endearing and engaging. They were both essential parts of the team -- which is a massive part of why THE RESISTANCE was such a disaster in its totally random and arbitrary decision to remove Daniel from the show.
Um. I feel I may have been a little dismissive of milowent here, so I want to say that milowent has always been a comrade and an ally and I have nothing but love for him. I just don't see things the same way here. You do not have to choose one over the other. |
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