Lonelygirl15

tannhaus · Guest

No, there are not questionable things about the religion when you "research" them. There are lies and defamatory statements about the religion. Those are two different things.

sunflowernik · Casual Observer Joined: 14 Sep 2006 Posts: 91

tannhaus · Guest

sunflowernik · Casual Observer Joined: 14 Sep 2006 Posts: 91

Minuet · Suspiciously Absent Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 3

I just wanted to post this as an observation. Many of you are saying Thelema has nothing to do with Satan, and while the practice of Thelema may not (I don't know...I don't practice it) there are specific references to the Christian version of Satan in the book Crowley wrote as the Thelemic bible. I pulled this from Chapter 2 of the Book of Law:

22. I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. The exposure of innocence is a lie. Be strong, o man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this.

At the risk of offending Thelemic practicioners, I'm going to call this as I see it. At the very least, Crowley thinks it's a good idea to embrace what Satan offered in the Garden of Eden. If not truly Satanic, it's certainly skimming the surface.

For those of you who keep saying you shouldn't make judgements on a religion based on one person, well Crowley wrote this book that seems to still be the main document used by Thelemites today. Apparently, the distance between Crowley and Thelema is not as wide as some would prefer it to be.

If anyone reads this who has any working knowledge of this religion, please offer another explanation, because this seems pretty clear to me.

Traegorn · Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:01 am Post subject:

See, I don't necessarily see that as a reference to the devil at all. The Snake holds powerful spiritual significance for many different faiths... including the faiths of ancient Egypt, which Thelema borrows heavily... but in the end - it appears to me - that the point of the passage is that "What you've been taught is wrong may not be" rather than anything else.

You have to remember to look at a passage like that with fresh eyes, and not the prejudices that (frankly most of us) have about some of the imagery. Breaking preconcieved notions of symbols was part of the point.

Of course, I'm not a thelemite (and I'm not a fan of Crowley "the man" at all), so I could still be wrong. Razz

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Minuet · Suspiciously Absent Joined: 17 Sep 2006 Posts: 3

Traegorn · Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:44 am Post subject:

Well, I again think it's meant to be metaphor - that not everything you've been taught is wrong or bad necessarily is.

From what I've read, like many other esoteric religions, part of Thelema is about rejecting "codified" morality, and replacing it with a more general philisophical point which could be a replacement guide.

This would still leave things like murder and stealing as wrong, but other things the culture at the time (which, like now, was largely Christian for Crowley) like sex and drugs aren't.

I just think that it isn't meant to be taken literally is all. *shrug*
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Xen · Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:52 am Post subject: Re: the nature of Thelema

Sfonzarelli · Devoted Fan Joined: 18 Sep 2006 Posts: 580

Yeah, the serpent was a Gnostic folk hero. In order to discuss Crowley's views on Satan, we'll have to delve into an extensive discussion of Hebraic Judaism, Jewish mysticism, Gnostic/Early Christian mysticism, the connection of Judeo-Christian symbolism to religious symbolism of neighboring cultures, and medieval esoteric practice, all of which Crowley wrote extensively about.

M80mayhem · Casual Observer Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 36 Location: MO

Crowley referred to the process of discovering the Will as the Great Work...which usually includes practices based on Yoga, the Qabalah, Hermeticism, and ceremonial ritual...then crossing the Abyss, a mystical process where the individual ego is "annihilated" (symbolized by the spilling of the blood into the Graal of Babalon)

graverubber · Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject:

mijajane · Suspiciously Absent Joined: 14 Sep 2006 Posts: 6

Crowley, while a controversial figure, may have been a red herring. Yes, most people would jump to the major religions/ideas that his works have influenced but this is a work of fiction and the authors can do whatever the heck they want with it.

But do you really think the creators of this story line are trying to make this an "evil" story? Yes, Bree's secretive about naming it or the ceremony but nothing has been said that would scream "Danger, Will Robinson. You're religion is evil." This has all been speculation on these types of forums.

But I do think her religion will turn out to be evil and scary. Maybe I'm just being influenced by the cassieiswatching (whether "official" or not) saga.

I did some research into the "Order of Dendarah" "Horus" "Set" etc. Could the LG15 creaters have made up some offshoot religion where Crowley was also involved in Set worshiping? Hmmm..

Traegorn · Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject:

Well, Crowley was really into Hathor - so you never know.

I have the feeling that Bree is a part of a fictional offshoot of modern Thelema, so this could end up being completely harmless or in the exact opposite direction depending on where the writers take it.
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