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cynicar
Lonely Fan
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Various lands throughout the Midwest
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 Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| Sad Panda wrote: | A. Gold star for Posting the thread correctly! <3
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Aww, thank you! I was all nervous.
The fact that Bree and Daniel logged into their accounts about the same time gives me hope that it was just someone updating the autoplay vid. As far as the song, here's how I'm parsing the lyrics for now.
Oh, Ill settle down with some old story
About a boy whos just like me
Thought there was love in everything and everyone
Youre so naive!
They always reach a sorry ending
They always get it in the end
I'm guessing this is referring to what happened to when Gemma first tricked him. But after that:
Still it was worth it as I turned the pages solemnly, and then
With a winning smile, the poor boy
With naivety succeeds
At the final moment, I cried
I always cry at endings
He succeeded in killing her and "winning?" Though it was hardly with naivety...
Thoughts? |
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EliCash
Lonely Fan
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 173
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | With a winning smile, the poor boy
With naivety succeeds
At the final moment, I cried
I always cry at endings
Well, before this I didn't think he killed Gemma ... now I'm having my doubts. This seems like a "Mission Accomplished" signal to Tachy. |
I think you're misreading it. The "ending" of the story he's reading in that verse is explained in the next verse as the character writing something (as OPPOSED to killing her). Here's the best interpretation I've found:
| Quote: | This song is entirely brilliant lyrically, it has several layers of meaning.
1. The songwriter sitting looking out his window, thinking about what to write
2. The songwriter imagining himself in a fairy-tale type story in a book he's reading, as the naive hero
3. The songwriter thinking about his actual mundane life and the band he's in
4. The songwriter speaking to his ex-lovers, who he abandons and doesn't always contact
At the end 1-4 are brought together perfectly by the last few lines.
I would go so far as to say that:
Oh, that wasn't what I meant to say at all
From where I'm sitting, rain
Washing against the lonely tenement
Has set my mind to wander
And the rest of that verse are the best lyrics I can think of outside a Bob Dylan song, and from me that's very high praise indeed. |
To me, the key line to the plot here is "It is mightier than swords" (in reference to writing). It appears to me he wrote something to Gemma. This would make sense, too, now that we know she logged in.
Last edited by EliCash on Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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diastres
Lonely Fan
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| cynicar wrote: | | The fact that Bree and Daniel logged into their accounts about the same time gives me hope that it was just someone updating the autoplay vid. |
Yes, but... if it's just that, it'd be nice to know. I'm assuming the Creators have control of that account, not the OpA people, so it's entirely possible. It just makes things difficult on us, since there's no confirmation either way.
I don't know if we should look at the lyrics of the whole song or just the part in the vm. I've been thinking the part in the vm.
I was sold on it being that he succeeded even though he cried... but then Gemma logs in and "At the final moment, I cried" came to mind and made me wonder "Maybe he faltered at the final moment?"
I don't know. It's hard to decide, assuming it's not Gemma logging into her YT account. Afterall, Op could probably get onto it.
Even then, why would Op bring attention to that vid? It just shows what her organization does. |
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violagoddess
Casual Observer
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Midwest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| Aww man, I wish I'd been around earlier! I would have known that song instantly ... I love Belle & Sebastian!! |
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violagoddess
Casual Observer
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Midwest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| Also, the first thing I thought when I heard the line: "I always cry at endings" was that he did kill Gemma. This would be the undeniable "end" of whatever relationship they might have had. He "cried" (literally or metaphorically) because it was so hard for him to have to take her out. |
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EliCash
Lonely Fan
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 173
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Also, the first thing I thought when I heard the line: "I always cry at endings" was that he did kill Gemma. This would be the undeniable "end" of whatever relationship they might have had. He "cried" (literally or metaphorically) because it was so hard for him to have to take her out. |
The lyrics don't refer to the "end" of a relationship. They refer to the "end" of a story that the songwriter is reading. Check out my post above. |
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EternalGoddess
Devoted Fan
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 564
Location: In the back of your closet
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: |
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I wonder why he would want to kill her. Yes, she's working for the order, but it doesn't make any sense to kill only her. Maybe he couldn't do it at the last moment, but succeded in another way. Maybe he captured her instead.
_________________
The Truth: There is always two sides to every story.
The Task: Listening to those stories. |
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violagoddess
Casual Observer
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 38
Location: Midwest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| EliCash wrote: | | Quote: | | Also, the first thing I thought when I heard the line: "I always cry at endings" was that he did kill Gemma. This would be the undeniable "end" of whatever relationship they might have had. He "cried" (literally or metaphorically) because it was so hard for him to have to take her out. |
The lyrics don't refer to the "end" of a relationship. They refer to the "end" of a story that the songwriter is reading. Check out my post above. |
Yeah, I do know what you mean. I've always loved that song. I was just taking the part in the VM out of context for the sake of the story ... just trying to brainstorm  |
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diastres
Lonely Fan
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 151
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| EliCash wrote: | | The lyrics don't refer to the "end" of a relationship. They refer to the "end" of a story that the songwriter is reading. Check out my post above. |
The lyrics if you take the whole song into account. However, it wasn't the entire song on the voice mail, so that might not be what we need to consider, but the lyrics of the selection itself.
Just sayin'. I could be wrong, of course. |
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curriguy
Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 397
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| EternalGoddess wrote: | | I wonder why he would want to kill her. Yes, she's working for the order, but it doesn't make any sense to kill only her. Maybe he couldn't do it at the last moment, but succeded in another way. Maybe he captured her instead. |
there is reason to believe that brother was hurt Personally by Gemma. She pretended to love him in order to gain information in February of last year, and then used her knowledge to coordinate an assasination attempt. If these accusations turn out to be true, then killing her would be a satisfying form of revenge. |
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covedweller
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Oh man. I must be on something. Brother gave us a puzzle built around a Belle and Sebastian song.
I do like this song, and it's also notable that the term gay applies to it if you choose either or both definitions!  |
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EliCash
Lonely Fan
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 173
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The lyrics if you take the whole song into account. However, it wasn't the entire song on the voice mail, so that might not be what we need to consider, but the lyrics of the selection itself.
Just sayin'. I could be wrong, of course. |
I think that's a legitimate point. And of course I can be wrong, as well.
So let me just examine that section, even though I don't think it should be looked at alone:
| Quote: | Oh, Ill settle down with some old story
About a boy whos just like me
Thought there was love in everything and everyone
Youre so naive!
They always reach a sorry ending
They always get it in the end
Still it was worth it as I turned the pages solemnly, and then
With a winning smile, the poor boy
With naivety succeeds
At the final moment, I cried
I always cry at endings |
The part I bolded is important and indicates an important shift in the meaning. It's NOT a "sorry ending," as indicated by this unexpected outcome.
The "sorry ending" for him would have been him killing his ex, I think. But the story he was reading DIDN'T have the sorry ending, according to this passage from the song.
It's a victory for "naivety." Not for killing. Even without looking at the rest of the lyrics, I still come to the same conclusion that I don't think Gemma was killed based on the voicemail. |
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Ziola
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 5774
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:43 am Post subject: |
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I think that he either killed her or injured her gravely. And its the last few lines that make me think that way.
With a winning smile, the poor boy
With naivety succeeds
At the final moment, I cried
I always cry at endings
We have already been told how naive Brother was when he was in London and how Gemma used him and almost succeeded in getting him killed by the order. So, I think that is a solid clue that Brother did indeed finish the task that Tachyon set for him, but that it was a cruel victory for him. And I know that the song itself has many different, underlying stories, but we cannot use them, we can only interpret what was given to us in reference to the situation we are in. |
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unrepentant
Casual Observer
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Is it possible that what's significant here is not the lyrics, but the title? "Get me away from here, I'm dying" could be a distress signal. |
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lookyz
Casual Observer
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Manhattan's Shadow
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Is there anything to the use of the artist (Belle and SEBASTIAN) more than the song?
I can't believe it didn't scream out to me earlier...there may not be anything there, I just thought it was notable - given Sebastian is the name Gemma knew him by, no? |
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