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Lonelygirl15
Forum to post messages about Bree and Danielbeast
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honkey
Casual Observer
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 34
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 Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| GimmeYourForever wrote: | if you think sex is as "dark as it gets" well then i'm glad i don't sleep with you lol.
i have to give props to traegorn. i actually think that suppressing sex and supressing open discussion about it makes a person more drawn to it because they will be more curious. |
Yeah, eating excrement of others whom you bed....is pretty dark. Ignorance is bliss, however, please understand what is stated before you 'attempt' to reply. |
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Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| On the iron supplement issue...I understand how it COULD be tied into something strange...but I've been on iron supplements since forever and a day ago. Perhaps because of her 'diet' she's simply anemic? I dunno, I just don't want to read more into it than what it could be. |
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Traegorn
Casual Observer
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| honkey wrote: | | summoning demonic spirits through sex rituals isnt what i call "relaxed". To be permissible is one thing, totally throw out all morality is another. And yes, Crowley's teaching was to void ones self of all aspects of morality. LoL, he was a true demonic worshiper. A documentary is out on youtube, id suggest you not waste your time (as i already have) but if it interests you, check it out. He's pure evil. |
Okay, so you need to learn to seperate the man, Aleister Crowley, from Thelema. Honest to friggin' god...
Look, modern Thelema is VERY DIFFERENT from the life of Crowley - and perhaps understanding that there IS a difference between the two might cause you to wake up for a minute.
Crowley was a bit of a douche, but that doesn't mean that everything he said was evil. Thelema has strong ethics at its very core - to crib Wikipedia: | Quote: | Duty is described as "A note on the chief rules of practical conduct to be observed by those who accept the Law of Thelema." There are four sections:
1. Duty to Self: essentially describes the self as the center of the universe, with a call to learn about one's inner nature. Further, every Thelemite is to develop every faculty in a balanced way, establish one's autonomy, and to learn and do one's True Will.
2. Duty to Others: A Thelemite is called to eliminate the illusion of separateness between oneself and all others, to fight when necessary, to avoid interfering with the Wills of others, to enlighten others when needed, and to recognize the divine nature of all other beings. Further, it is noble to relieve the suffering of others, but pity (seen as condescending) should be avoided.
3. Duty to Mankind: Thelemites should try to establish the Law of Thelema as the sole basis of conduct. Further, the laws of the land should have the aim of securing the greatest liberty for all individuals. Crime is viewed from the point of view of violating one's True Will ("Thus, murder restricts his right to live; robbery, his right to enjoy the fruits of his labour; coining, his right to the guarantee of the state that he shall barter in security; etc.").
4. Duty to All Other Beings and Things: Quite simply: "It is a violation of the Law of Thelema to abuse the natural qualities of any animal or object by diverting it from its proper function" and "The Law of Thelema is to be applied unflinchingly to decide every question of conduct."
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Yeah... a religion that says it's wrong to kill, steal, or do anything that forces someone to do something they don't want to must be evil 
Crowley founded Thelema (or at least the most common version), but Crowley does not EQUAL Thelema.
Heck, the current Pope is a former Hitler Youth who said some made some fairly anti-islamic statements - but that doesn't mean I think all Catholics are Nazis who hate Muslims.
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honkey
Casual Observer
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| Traegorn wrote: | | honkey wrote: | | summoning demonic spirits through sex rituals isnt what i call "relaxed". To be permissible is one thing, totally throw out all morality is another. And yes, Crowley's teaching was to void ones self of all aspects of morality. LoL, he was a true demonic worshiper. A documentary is out on youtube, id suggest you not waste your time (as i already have) but if it interests you, check it out. He's pure evil. |
Okay, so you need to learn to seperate the man, Aleister Crowley, from Thelema. Honest to friggin' god...
Look, modern Thelema is VERY DIFFERENT from the life of Crowley - and perhaps understanding that there IS a difference between the two might cause you to wake up for a minute.
Crowley was a bit of a douche, but that doesn't mean that everything he said was evil. Thelema has strong ethics at its very core - to crib Wikipedia: | Quote: | Duty is described as "A note on the chief rules of practical conduct to be observed by those who accept the Law of Thelema." There are four sections:
1. Duty to Self: essentially describes the self as the center of the universe, with a call to learn about one's inner nature. Further, every Thelemite is to develop every faculty in a balanced way, establish one's autonomy, and to learn and do one's True Will.
2. Duty to Others: A Thelemite is called to eliminate the illusion of separateness between oneself and all others, to fight when necessary, to avoid interfering with the Wills of others, to enlighten others when needed, and to recognize the divine nature of all other beings. Further, it is noble to relieve the suffering of others, but pity (seen as condescending) should be avoided.
3. Duty to Mankind: Thelemites should try to establish the Law of Thelema as the sole basis of conduct. Further, the laws of the land should have the aim of securing the greatest liberty for all individuals. Crime is viewed from the point of view of violating one's True Will ("Thus, murder restricts his right to live; robbery, his right to enjoy the fruits of his labour; coining, his right to the guarantee of the state that he shall barter in security; etc.").
4. Duty to All Other Beings and Things: Quite simply: "It is a violation of the Law of Thelema to abuse the natural qualities of any animal or object by diverting it from its proper function" and "The Law of Thelema is to be applied unflinchingly to decide every question of conduct."
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Yeah... a religion that says it's wrong to kill, steal, or do anything that forces someone to do something they don't want to must be evil
Crowley founded Thelema (or at least the most common version), but Crowley does not EQUAL Thelema.
Heck, the current Pope is a former Hitler Youth who said some made some fairly anti-islamic statements - but that doesn't mean I think all Catholics are Nazis who hate Muslims. |
I wont address your fevered desire to defend his cult. It's your business. However, if you are compelled to respond to whatever it is that i post, I must request you reply to what it is that i wrote. Now, in responce to your attempt to deflect Crowley's sinister ideas as being the foundation of Thelema. Crowley IS a founder (one of two) and therefore is based on his sadistic values. You can not dismiss him as you do the Pope, rather direct your Christian comparisons to Christ. |
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Traegorn
Casual Observer
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Okay, honkey, I'm saying Crowley was bad, Thelema isn't.
His values are not what have necessarily been passed down.
Thelema, also, is NOT A CULT. A cult has a very narrow definition, and I reccomend that perhaps you engage brain and finish doing your research before attempting to debate this with actual human beings.
I was directly responding to you - I stated that Thelema has morality. You said that it doesn't, and I responded by posting the moral rules of Thelema. That is a direct response, smart guy.
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honkey
Casual Observer
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Traegorn wrote: | Okay, honkey, I'm saying Crowley was bad, Thelema isn't.
His values are not what have necessarily been passed down.
Thelema, also, is NOT A CULT. A cult has a very narrow definition, and I reccomend that perhaps you engage brain and finish doing your research before attempting to debate this with actual human beings.
I was directly responding to you - I stated that Thelema has morality. You said that it doesn't, and I responded by posting the moral rules of Thelema. That is a direct response, smart guy. |
Thelema is not a cult? What is it i should call it then? A religion, mindset, outlook? Inform me with your insight. (fyi, contrary to what you may be reading, cult is a very broad term. often times refering to mere lifestyles.)
Also, which of Crowley's values do you understand to be taboo in Thelema? (seems to me he is highly regarded within the varying sects. Please lead me to where i can 'learn' how Thelema has distanced themselves from Crowley in the slightest.)
Lastly, in my original post, i refered to Crowley and his religion. I never mentioned Thelema. So, to be clear, you 'did not' read what i posted. "His values are not what have necessarily been passed down." News to me. |
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Traegorn
Casual Observer
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Okay honkey,
Thelema is a religion. An esoteric religion if we want to get more specific.
A cult requires a charismatic, centralized leader - which you do not have in this case.
At any point, the only thing I've talked about is Thelema - as it is at least widely believed (due to references in website design and Bree's videos) that this is Bree's religion. You will notice, that in the beginning of this thread, it is entirely within this assumption that anyone was talking.
You responded in reference to "Crowley's religion" - and when all other posts are in this thread are reference to Thelema (a religion that Crowley is a founder of), it can only be assumed (by any reasonable human being) that this is what you were referring to. Therefore, at any point, all I have done was defend that particular faith. In fact, since I've kept using the word, it is bizarre to me that you claim confusion now. You've continued to argue knowing full well that my intent was to defend Thelema itself, which makes me suspicious to your current denial.
As for Crowley's values - my point was that regardless of what Crowley did in his personal life, the "deviance" you speak of is not necessarily inclusive in Thelemite teachings. As in regards to the ethical views of Thelema, please see one of my previous posts in this thread as I have already furnished you with this information.
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honkey
Casual Observer
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Traegorn wrote: | Okay honkey,
Thelema is a religion. An esoteric religion if we want to get more specific.
A cult requires a charismatic, centralized leader - which you do not have in this case.
At any point, the only thing I've talked about is Thelema - as it is at least widely believed (due to references in website design and Bree's videos) that this is Bree's religion. You will notice, that in the beginning of this thread, it is entirely within this assumption that anyone was talking.
You responded in reference to "Crowley's religion" - and when all other posts are in this thread are reference to Thelema (a religion that Crowley is a founder of), it can only be assumed (by any reasonable human being) that this is what you were referring to. Therefore, at any point, all I have done was defend that particular faith. In fact, since I've kept using the word, it is bizarre to me that you claim confusion now. You've continued to argue knowing full well that my intent was to defend Thelema itself, which makes me suspicious to your current denial.
As for Crowley's values - my point was that regardless of what Crowley did in his personal life, the "deviance" you speak of is not necessarily inclusive in Thelemite teachings. As in regards to the ethical views of Thelema, please see one of my previous posts in this thread as I have already furnished you with this information. |
LoL A cult is a very broad term...Sun worshipers need no leader to be classified occult. I can post the definition if you need it. (I'd do it here, but you can wiki it). Were you going to answer any of my questions or were you just going to rant? If you fail to show me where any Thelema sect has distanced themselvs from anything Crowley did taught then you have no basis to claim Crowley's teachings arent appreciated in current Thelema and I see no reason to continue this discussion. You can tout whatever you'd like about anything, But please offer facts. Btw, dont confuse sarcasm with confusion it's a sign of bewilderment. |
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Traegorn
Casual Observer
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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I addressed specific issues in your posts. Claiming I didn't doesn't "undo" what I said.
If anything, its avoiding the point.
In what may be a futile attempt to talk to you about this, Thelemites follow what Crowley taught as Thelema - not everything Crowley ever did. Saying that because Crowley said or did something in no way says that it was a part of Thelema - frankly, trying to equate the two is an ad hominem argument.
Finally, I never said it wasn't occult, I said it wasn't a cult. These words are not synonymous.
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honkey
Casual Observer
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 34
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Traegorn wrote: | I addressed specific issues in your posts. Claiming I didn't doesn't "undo" what I said.
If anything, its avoiding the point.
In what may be a futile attempt to talk to you about this, Thelemites follow what Crowley taught as Thelema - not everything Crowley ever did. Saying that because Crowley said or did something in no way says that it was a part of Thelema - frankly, trying to equate the two is an ad hominem argument.
Finally, I never said it wasn't occult, I said it wasn't a cult. These words are not synonymous. |
Unfortunately my criteria went unmet, you shall have the last word. It's been a pleasure. |
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Traegorn
Casual Observer
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Cute, very cute.
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