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[I in APHID] [Discussion] - Thiry Six strategies

 
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Shastacat2
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:36 am    Post subject: [I in APHID] [Discussion] - Thiry Six strategies Reply with quote

Deceive the sky to cross the ocean (Traditional Chinese: 瞞天過海; Simplified Chinese: 瞒天过海; pinyin: Mán tiān guò hǎi)

* Moving about in the darkness and shadows, occupying isolated places, or hiding behind screens will only attract suspicious attention. To lower an enemy's guard you must act in the open and hide your true intentions under the guise of common every day activities.

2. Besiege Wèi to rescue Zhào (Traditional Chinese: 圍魏救趙; Simplified Chinese: 围魏救赵; pinyin: Wéi Wèi jiù Zhào)

* When the enemy is too strong to attack directly, then attack something he holds dear. Know that in all things he cannot be superior. Somewhere there is a gap in the armour, a weakness that can be attacked instead.
* The origins of this proverb is from the Warring States Period. The state of Wèi attacked Zhao and laid siege to its capital Handan. Zhào turned to Qí for help, but the Qí general Sun Bin determined it would be unwise to meet the army of Wèi head on, so he instead attacked their capital at Daliang. The army of Wèi retreated in haste, and they were ambushed and defeated at the Battle of Guiling, with the Wèi general Pang Juan slain on the field.

3. Kill with a borrowed knife (Traditional Chinese: 借刀殺人; Simplified Chinese: 借刀杀人; pinyin: Jiè dāo shā rén)

* Attack using the strength of another (in a situation where using one's own strength is not favourable). Trick an ally into attacking him, bribe an official to turn traitor, or use the enemy's own strength against him.

4. Replace labor with leisure (Traditional Chinese: 以逸待勞; Simplified Chinese: 以逸待劳; pinyin: Yǐ yì dài láo)

* It is an advantage to choose the time and place for battle. In this way you know when and where the battle will take place, while your enemy does not. Encourage your enemy to expend his energy in futile quests while you conserve your strength. When he is exhausted and confused, you attack with energy and purpose.

5. Loot a burning house (Chinese: 趁火打劫; pinyin: Chèn huǒ dǎjié)

* When a country is beset by internal conflicts, when disease and famine ravage the population, when corruption and crime are rampant, then it will be unable to deal with an outside threat. This is the time to attack.

6. Make a sound in the east then strike in the west (Traditional Chinese: 聲東擊西; Simplified Chinese: 声东击西; pinyin: Shēng dōng jī xī)

* In any battle the element of surprise can provide an overwhelming advantage. Even when face to face with an enemy, surprise can still be employed by attacking where he least expects it. To do this you must create an expectation in the enemy's mind through the use of a feint.

[edit] Chapter 2: Enemy Dealing Strategies

7. Create something from nothing (Traditional Chinese: 無中生有; Simplified Chinese: 无中生有; pinyin: Wú zhōng shēng yǒu)

* You use the same feint twice. Having reacted to the first and often the second feint as well, the enemy will be hesitant to react to a third feint. Therefore the third feint is the actual attack catching your enemy with his guard down.

8. Sneak through the passage of Chencang (Traditional Chinese: 暗渡陳倉; Simplified Chinese: 暗渡陈仓; pinyin: Àn dù Chéncāng)

* Attack the enemy with two convergent forces. The first is the direct attack, one that is obvious and for which the enemy prepares his defense. The second is the indirect, the attack sinister, that the enemy does not expect and which causes him to divide his forces at the last minute leading to confusion and disaster.
* This proverb is a shortened form of 「明修棧道,暗渡陳倉」, literally translated as "openly repair the gallery roads, but sneak through the passage of Chencang". The phrase originated from the Chu-Han contention, where Liu Bang retreated to the lands of Sichuan to prepare for a confrontation with Xiang Yu. Once he was fully prepared, Liu Bang sent men to openly repair the gallery roads he had destroyed earlier, while secretely moving his troops towards Guanzhong through the small town of Chencang instead. When Xiang Yu received news of Liu Bang repairing the gallery roads, he dismissed the threat since he knew the repairs would take years to complete. This allowed Liu Bang to retake Guanzhong by surprise, and eventually led to his victory over Xiang Yu and the birth of the Han Dynasty.

9. Watch the fires burning across the river (Traditional Chinese: 隔岸觀火; Simplified Chinese: 隔岸观火; pinyin: Gé àn guān huǒ)

* Delay entering the field of battle until all the other players have become exhausted fighting amongst themselves. Then go in full strength and pick up the pieces.

10. Hide a knife behind a smile (Traditional Chinese: 笑裏藏刀; Simplified Chinese: 笑里藏刀; pinyin: Xiào lǐ cáng dāo1)

* Charm and ingratiate yourself to your enemy. When you have gained his trust, you move against him in secret.

11. Sacrifices the plum tree to preserve the peach tree (Chinese: 李代桃僵; pinyin: Lǐ dài táo jiāng)

* There are circumstances in which you must sacrifice short-term objectives in order to gain the long-term goal. This is the scapegoat strategy whereby someone else suffers the consequences so that the rest do not.
* Cao Cao of the Three Kingdoms Period demonstrated this strategy. During a siege, Cao supplies ran low so he called in the supply captain and told him to dilute the rice with water to save grains. When the soldiers started to complain, Cao ordered for the captain to be killed. He would explain to his troops that the captain has been selling supplies to the enemy. This raises the army morale and they were victorious in a few more days.

12. Take the opportunity to pilfer a goat (Traditional Chinese: 順手牽羊; Simplified Chinese: 顺手牵羊; pinyin: Shùn shǒu qiān yáng)

* While carrying out your plans be flexible enough to take advantage of any opportunity that presents itself, however small, and avail yourself of any profit, however slight.

[edit] Chapter 3: Attacking Strategies

13. Startle the snake by hitting the grass around it (Traditional Chinese: 打草驚蛇; Simplified Chinese: 打草惊蛇; pinyin: Dá cǎo jīng shé)

* When preparing for battle, do not alert your enemy to your intentions or give away your strategy prematurely.

14. Borrow another's corpse to resurrect the soul (Traditional Chinese: 借屍還魂; Simplified Chinese: 借尸还魂; pinyin: Jiè shī huán hún)

* Take an institution, a technology, or a method that has been forgotten or discarded and appropriate it for your own purpose. Revive something from the past by giving it a new purpose or to reinterpret and bring to life old ideas, customs, and traditions.

15. Entice the tiger to leave its mountain lair (Traditional Chinese: 調虎離山; Simplified Chinese: 调虎离山; pinyin: Diào hǔ lí shān)

* Never directly attack an opponent whose advantage is derived from its position. Instead lure him away from his position thus separating him from his source of strength.

16. In order to capture, one must let loose (Traditional Chinese: 欲擒姑縱; Simplified Chinese: 欲擒姑纵; pinyin: Diào hǔ lí shān)

* Cornered prey will often mount a final desperate attack. To prevent this you let the enemy believe he still has a chance for freedom. His will to fight is thus dampened by his desire to escape. When in the end the freedom is proven a falsehood the enemy's morale will be defeated and he will surrender without a fight.

17. Tossing out a brick to get a jade (Traditional Chinese: 拋磚引玉; Simplified Chinese: 抛砖引玉; pinyin: Pāo zhuān yǐn yù)

* Prepare a trap then lure your enemy into the trap by using bait. In war the bait is the illusion of an opportunity for gain. In life the bait is the illusion of wealth, power, and sex.
* This proverb is based on a story involving two famous poets of the Tang Dynasty. There was a great poet named Zhao Gu (趙嘏) and another lesser poet by the name of Chang Jian (常建). While Chang Jian was traveling in Suzhou, he heard news that Zhao Gu would be visiting a temple in the area. Chang Jian wished to learn from the master poet, so he devised a plan and went to the temple in advance, then wrote a poem on the temple walls with only two of the four lines completed, hoping Zhao Gu would see it and finish the poem. Zhao Gu acted as Chang Jian forsaw, and from this story came the proverb.

18. Defeat the enemy by capturing their chief (Traditional Chinese: 擒賊擒王; Simplified Chinese: 擒贼擒王; pinyin: Qín zéi qín wáng)

* If the enemy's army is strong but is allied to the commander only by money or threats, then take aim at the leader. If the commander falls the rest of the army will disperse or come over to your side. If, however, they are allied to the leader through loyalty then beware, the army can continue to fight on after his death out of vengeance.

[edit] Chapter 4: Chaos Strategies

19. Remove the firewood under the cooking pot (Chinese: 釜底抽薪; pinyin: Fǔ dǐ chōu xīn)

* When faced with an enemy too powerful to engage directly you must first weaken him by undermining his foundation and attacking his source of power.

20. Catch a fish while the water is disturbed (Traditional Chinese: 混水摸魚; Simplified Chinese: 混水摸鱼; pinyin: Hún shuǐ mō yú)

* Before engaging your enemy's forces create confusion to weaken his perception and judgement. Do something unusual, strange, and unexpected as this will arouse the enemy's suspicion and disrupt his thinking. A distracted enemy is thus more vulnerable.

21. Slough off the cicada's shell (Traditional Chinese: 金蟬脱殼; Simplified Chinese: 金蝉脱壳; pinyin: Jīn1 chán tuō kě)

* When you are in danger of being defeated, and your only chance is to escape and regroup, then create an illusion. While the enemy's attention is focused on this artifice, secretly remove your men leaving behind only the facade of your presence.

22. Shut the door to catch the thief (Traditional Chinese: 關門捉賊; Simplified Chinese: 关门捉贼; pinyin: Guān mén zhōu zéi)

* If you have the chance to completely capture the enemy then you should do so thereby bringing the battle or war to a quick and lasting conclusion. To allow your enemy to escape plants the seeds for future conflict. But if they succeed in escaping, be wary of giving chase.

23. Befriend a distant state while attacking a neighbour (Traditional Chinese: 遠交近攻; Simplified Chinese: 远交近攻; pinyin: Yuǎn jiāo jīn gōng)

* It is known that nations that border each other become enemies while nations separated by distance and obstacles make better allies. When you are the strongest in one field, your greatest threat is from the second strongest in your field, not the strongest from another field.

24. Obtain safe passage to conquer the State of Guo (Chinese: 假道伐虢; pinyin: Jiǎ dào fá Guó)

* Borrow the resources of an ally to attack a common enemy. Once the enemy is defeated, use those resources to turn on the ally that lent you them in the first place.

[edit] Chapter 5, Proximate Strategies

25. Replace the beams with rotten timbers (Traditional Chinese: 偷梁換柱; Simplified Chinese: 偷梁换柱; pinyin: Tōu liáng huàn zhù)

* Disrupt the enemy's formations, interfere with their methods of operations, change the rules in which they are used to following, go contrary to their standard training. In this way you remove the supporting pillar, the common link that makes a group of men an effective fighting force.

26. Point at the mulberry tree while cursing the locust tree (Traditional Chinese: 指桑罵槐; Simplified Chinese: 指桑骂槐; pinyin: Zhǐ sāng mà huái)

* To discipline, control, or warn others whose status or position excludes them from direct confrontation; use analogy and innuendo. Without directly naming names, those accused cannot retaliate without revealing their complicity.

27. Play dumb (Traditional Chinese: 假痴不癲; Simplified Chinese: 假痴不癫; pinyin: Jiǎ chī bù diān)

* Hide behind the mask of a fool, a drunk, or a madman to create confusion about your intentions and motivations. Lure your opponent into underestimating your ability until, overconfident, he drops his guard. Then you may attack.

28. Remove the ladder when the enemy has ascended to the roof (Chinese: 上屋抽梯; pinyin: Shàng wū chōu tī)

* With baits and deceptions lure your enemy into treacherous terrain. Then cut off his lines of communication and avenue of escape. To save himself he must fight both your own forces and the elements of nature.

29. Deck the tree with false blossoms (Traditional Chinese: 樹上開花; Simplified Chinese: 树上开花; pinyin: Shù shàng kāi huā)

* Tying silk blossoms on a dead tree gives the illusion that the tree is healthy. Through the use of artifice and disguise make something of no value appear valuable; of no threat appear dangerous; of no use appear useful.

30. Make the host and the guest exchange roles (Traditional Chinese: 反客為主; Simplified Chinese: 反客为主; pinyin: Fǎn kè wéi zhǔ)

* Defeat the enemy from within by infiltrating the enemy's camp under the guise of cooperation, surrender, or peace treaties. In this way you can discover his weakness and then, when the enemy's guard is relaxed, strike directly at the source of his strength.

[edit] Chapter 6: Defeat Strategies

31. The honey trap (Traditional Chinese: 美人計; Simplified Chinese: 美人计; pinyin: Měirén jì)

* Send your enemy beautiful women to cause discord within his camp. This strategy can work on three levels. First, the ruler becomes so enamoured with the beauty that he neglects his duties and allows his vigilance to wane. Second, other males at court will begin to display aggressive behaviour that inflames minor differences hindering co-operation and destroying morale. Third, other females at court, motivated by jealousy and envy, begin to plot intrigues further exasperating the situation.
* Even though this has been done many times, perhaps the most famous is Diaochan who broke up Lü Bu and Dong Zhuo, and Xi Shi who was sent to the State of Wu during the Spring and Autumn Period.

32. The empty fort strategy (Traditional Chinese: 空城計; Simplified Chinese: 空城计; pinyin: Kōngchéng jì)

* When the enemy is superior in numbers and your situation is such that you expect to be overrun at any moment, then drop all pretence of military preparedness and act casually. Unless the enemy has an accurate description of your situation this unusual behaviour will arouse suspicions. With luck he will be dissuaded from attacking.

33. Let the enemy's own spy sow discord in the enemy camp (Traditional Chinese: 反間計; Simplified Chinese: 反间计; pinyin: Fǎnjiàn jì)

* Undermine your enemy's ability to fight by secretly causing discord between him and his friends, allies, advisors, family, commanders, soldiers, and population. While he is preoccupied settling internal disputes his ability to attack or defend, is compromised.

34. Inflict injury on one's self to win the enemy's trust (Traditional Chinese: 苦肉計; Simplified Chinese: 苦肉计; pinyin: Kǔ ròu jì)

* Pretending to be injured has two possible applications. In the first, the enemy is lulled into relaxing his guard since he no longer considers you to be an immediate threat. The second is a way of ingratiating yourself to your enemy by pretending the injury was caused by a mutual enemy.
* This strategy was perhaps best demonstrated during the Spring and Autumn Period. After his defeat by King Fu Chai of Wu, King Gou Jian of Yue pretended to go to Wu to become a servant of Fu Chai. After gaining Fu Chai's trust, Guo Jian was allow back to Yue. There he strengthen his military and in 482 BC while Fu Chai was trying to gain hegemony, he attacked and conquered the capital. Some years later in 478 BC, he annexed Wu and forced Fu Chai to commit suicide.

35. Chain strategies (Traditional Chinese: 連環計; Simplified Chinese: 连环计; pinyin: Liánhuán jì)

* In important matters one should use several strategies applied simultaneously after another, as in a chain of strategies. Keep different plans operating in an overall scheme; however, in this manner if any one strategy fails the chain breaks and the whole scheme fails.

36. If all else fails, retreat (Traditional Chinese: 走為上策; Simplified Chinese: 走为上策; pinyin: Zǒu wéi shàng cè)

* If it becomes obvious that your current course of action will lead to defeat then retreat and regroup. When your side is losing there are only three choices remaining: surrender, compromise, or escape. Surrender is complete defeat, compromise is half defeat, but escape is not defeat. As long as you are not defeated, you still have a chance.
* This is the most famous one of the 36th strategy, immortalized in the form of a Chinese idiom: "Of the Thirty-Six Strategies, fleeing is best." (三十六計,走為上策)

Thirty - six is a tag in the new Op video. A google search lead us to this book.
From wiki in a search for 36... most of these apply to the story. What should we be looking out for.
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cynicar
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this too when I was trying some random googles. I decided to overlook it, since it doesn't mesh with what we know about the Order (basis of the religion lies in Egyptian traditions, though what variety, we're not sure yet).

Might be something though...
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covedweller
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The above fits with Op's war quote at the end of the video.

Has got to mean something. Especially since so many of those have been used by Op so far.
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kellylen
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

also from wiki

Quote:
In religion

* According to Jewish tradition, in every generation there are 36 righteous people (the "Lamed Vav Tzadikim") in whose merit the world continues to exist
* According to the Midrash, the light created by God on the First Day of Creation shone for exactly 36 hours; it was replaced by the light of the Sun that was created on the Fourth Day
* Altogether, 36 candles are kindled in the Hanukkah menorah over the 8 days of that holiday (not including the shamash candle)
* In one Māori legend, concerning the creation of mankind by the god Tāne, 36 gods took active part in assembling the various parts of the first human before Tāne breathed life into her.
* Traditionally Chinese dragons have 117 scales, 36 of which are Yang


on the number 36 and religion
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Ziola
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would just like to say that I use number 27 quite a bit...and it works! Laughing
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Sad Panda
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cynicar wrote:
I found this too when I was trying some random googles. I decided to overlook it, since it doesn't mesh with what we know about the Order (basis of the religion lies in Egyptian traditions, though what variety, we're not sure yet).

Might be something though...


While you are right (the main influence appears to derive from Egypt), the Order draws from a myriad of different resources all throughout history.

Personally, I think this is a great find. It really sounds like a source Op would draw from. Good job Shasta!
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cynicar
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found another alternative to the thirty six and posted it on the vid's thread, where no one seems to have noticed it:

http://lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=147681&highlight=#147681
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JustAnotherLonelyGirl.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
11. Sacrifices the plum tree to preserve the peach tree

* There are circumstances in which you must sacrifice short-term objectives in order to gain the long-term goal. This is the scapegoat strategy whereby someone else suffers the consequences so that the rest do not.
* Cao Cao of the Three Kingdoms Period demonstrated this strategy. During a siege, Cao supplies ran low so he called in the supply captain and told him to dilute the rice with water to save grains. When the soldiers started to complain, Cao ordered for the captain to be killed. He would explain to his troops that the captain has been selling supplies to the enemy. This raises the army morale and they were victorious in a few more days.

Quote:
16. In order to capture, one must let loose (Traditional Chinese: 欲擒姑縱; Simplified Chinese: 欲擒姑纵; pinyin: Diào hǔ lí shān)

* Cornered prey will often mount a final desperate attack. To prevent this you let the enemy believe he still has a chance for freedom. His will to fight is thus dampened by his desire to escape. When in the end the freedom is proven a falsehood the enemy's morale will be defeated and he will surrender without a fight.

17. Tossing out a brick to get a jade (Traditional Chinese: 拋磚引玉; Simplified Chinese: 抛砖引玉; pinyin: Pāo zhuān yǐn yù)

* Prepare a trap then lure your enemy into the trap by using bait. In war the bait is the illusion of an opportunity for gain. In life the bait is the illusion of wealth, power, and sex.



OpA appears to employ these religiously.
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Antissa Pompeii
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
10. Hide a knife behind a smile (Traditional Chinese: 笑裏藏刀; Simplified Chinese: 笑里藏刀; pinyin: Xiào lǐ cáng dāo1)

* Charm and ingratiate yourself to your enemy. When you have gained his trust, you move against him in secret.


That is another very obvious one, I think, with the whole Gemma thing.

And with #36, I swear I remember her saying 'surrender is not an option'...or maybe it was defeat...but whatever the case, something's goin' downtown here with Oppy, and I think it's about bloody time!
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onsweetavenue
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: [Discussion] - Thiry Six strategies Reply with quote

Have they been doing them in order, is a hint to the next step?

28 kinda scares me - because they always say they are in the middle of nowhere at Jonas's.
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girlAnachronism
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an amazing find, I definitely think it applies to Op.
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Killthesmiley
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this definately discribes Oppy.
But there are so many things that discribe Oppy. Especially in chinese warrior mythology and the forbidden city stories. It's hard to say if this is an actual connection OR if it's purely coincidence.
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