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curiousGeorge
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 Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: Who Can "See" "What" "Where" ? |
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Here we go again boyz and girlz.
Now that Op is releasing videos that are to be viewed by Bree and Joan, the reciprocal must be true.
And yes, I read the latest post from Miles and it does NOT address this logical based issue. There is no way that this can be done at this point.
Sooooo, every video released by Bree and Jonas must now be able to be viewed by the Order and vice-versa. This is going to be very difficult to pull off with ANY sense of logic. You can't have this as a one-way street at this point, it is a complete logical fallacy. No amount of fanwanking can resolve this issue.
As such, Bree and Jonas will knowingly reveal all of their plans. Nothing is a secret from the Order and vice-versa.
This does not make any sense. 
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Lurker
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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I thought we all agreed months ago that the Order could see Bree's vids from the very beginning and that she and Daniel continued uploading them to the internet because (1) this is a vlogger-based format that requires it and (2) they're terrible strategists.
If anything, had the Order not been able to see their videos, that would just mean that an organization that supposedly has The Connections is actually horribly mismanaged. If they had to make the logical error be this or that Bree and her friends continued posting videos, I would prefer it have been that she and her friends continued with their videos since the format of the series necessitated that one anyway. |
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curiousGeorge
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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I never agreed with that logic and, will all due respect, call it fanwanking of the worst kind. It does not make any logical sense.
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iamcool
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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what is fanwanking?
i dont think u understand the meaning of wanking lol
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curiousGeorge
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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Here you go Josh:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanwank
And yes, I know the other meaning of wank... Remember Gemma's not so nice description of P. Monkey?
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spaciegirlreturn
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Logic shmogic..who needs it?
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curiousGeorge
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Miss Taig's Handmaiden for that thought provoking reply. 
Care to weigh in with a real rebuttal? I am really trying to get a rational explanation to my question... I think with clever writing this all could have been pulled off. I think the ARG stuff is kinda cool, but it has now created a major logic flaw that I don't see how they can get out of...
Why would Bree ever post anything again? 
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Lurker
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| curiousGeorge wrote: | | I never agreed with that logic and, will all due respect, call it fanwanking of the worst kind. It does not make any logical sense. |
No offense taken, but I don't see how it's any greater an example of fanwanking than reasoning that the supposedly nigh-omniscient Order doesn't use the internet or look at any of the national newspapers (online and print) that talked about Bree's popularity. Heck, the fact that in their fictional world this website really is a fan-dedication to Bree is alone enough to tell us that she was already popular and getting a great deal of attention. If she only had 12 subscribers and one of them was expending the financial resources required to buy a domain to host a fansite for her and then spending the time required to maintain it, then... that would have been creepy for her, I'm sure.
Besides, what I suggested is hardly fanwanking anyway since I stated quite openly that what Bree and Daniel were doing was stupid -- but the thing is, it would have been stupid no matter what. If they didn't post the videos there would be no show, and if the Order didn't see the videos, that would have meant Bree and Daniel really had nothing to fear from them in the first place (because the Order would be lame and stupid).
It's far easier to go with the logical problem that the Creators had to work with anyway (the posting of the videos) and explain it by making the crew incompetent than is it to create a second logical problem by making both the good guys and the bad guys incompetent (Bree and her friends would be incompetent for posting their stuff to the internet regardless of whether the Order could see them or not; and in Daniel's case, with "Following The Helper" and a couple of other videos, he probably needed to be more concerned with the police seeing his videos).
By the way, didn't the revelation that Gemma was with the Order confirm they could see her videos before now anyway?
Last edited by Lurker on Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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covedweller
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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CG, you thought that logic flaw was there even before this. This latest revelation is a step towards solving that logic flaw in that Bree now sees OpAphid.
Obviously she will react to it. |
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spaciegirlreturn
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see why you'd want my rebuttal with all the "answers" you're getting from Lurker. 
Anyway, I completely agree with you and I can't really offer any logical explination..becuase nothing is making a lot of sense to me either.
If I begin to take this very seriously..I may implode.
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curiousGeorge
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Do you suppose they can devise a way to dedicate some vids as viewable to each other and others that would not... That might work, a bit convoluted, but it might help. Perhaps a separate page..
I appreciate both of your comments guys (?) but I still not seeing a MAJOR logic flaw that has become even worse now with the release of this vid. I think some of your points have merit but this is such a MAJOR change in the way things have been presented that it just doesn't make sense to me...
With all due respect, it does still sound like fanwanking and there is a limit to Suspension of Disbelief and is just crossed WAY over that line...
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ShardinsKitten
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Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Firstly Op and the LG15 videos had to cross over at some point. This will make a much more interesting story then had they been separate, which I'm thinking would of not gone much of anywhere. Op had to been seeing Bree/Jonas/DB's vids the whole time, she's too smart not to be. Plus there is the Gemma thing, how do you think Gemma just suddenly showed up. The difference now is that Bree will see Ops vids. This pushes her to get into her past and figure things out, to save her friend. I think if done right, it will be a great push forward in the storyline. |
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Lurker
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| curiousGeorge wrote: | | Do you suppose they can devise a way to dedicate some vids as viewable to each other and others that would not... That might work, a bit convoluted, but it might help. Perhaps a separate page.. |
Maybe so. There's certainly some videos up to now from OpAphid that it would be surprising to learn could have been seen by Bree and Daniel (the ransacking video for instance, but especially the one with cameras in their rooms). It would definitely tidy things up a bit if there was a clear-cut system for which of those videos at least are viewable to Bree, and which were intended only for us.
| curiousGeorge wrote: | | I appreciate both of your comments guys (?)... |
Yeah, I'm a guy. You're welcome, by the way.
| curiousGeorge wrote: | | ...but I still not seeing a MAJOR logic flaw that has become even worse now with the release of this vid. I think some of your points have merit but this is such a MAJOR change in the way things have been presented that it just doesn't make sense to me... |
I'm actually not so sure this is a big change. The very first OpAphid video ("You Made the Right Choice, Bree! - re: My Difficult Decision") was directed at Bree as well, and was actually a video response to one of her videos.
I think this problem has been here all along, though the explanation (if we get one) could be as simple as "Bree could see the first video and then this one." But I'm still fully in agreement that there needs to be a clearly defined system.
| curiousGeorge wrote: | | With all due respect, it does still sound like fanwanking and there is a limit to Suspension of Disbelief and is just crossed WAY over that line... |
I can understand why it might sound like fanwanking, and I hope you can understand why your idea that the Order couldn't see the videos sounds like it to me as well (I'm sure you can, though; you know this thing isn't logical any way you cut it). Personally, though, I see my explanation as the lesser of two WTFs. I fully agree, though, that it doesn't make it any less of a WTF.
In all truthfulness, this is just one of many logical problems that we've seen in the series. For instance, Daniel recorded illegally entering three different premises and stealing stuff from two of them. Then there's how unrealistic it was when Daniel was editing the "Bree's Dad Is Dead" video, and how unlikely it was that he and Jonas would have kept the camera on and passed it back and forth every couple of minutes to get the footage for it (which is supposed to have happened immediately after Bree's dad got shot).
Then there's how they've all been acting so casual for the last few weeks when they were all still in danger, how poorly Bree and Jonas handled going to Cowboy's place, and -- more unrealistic than anything else, perhaps -- how Daniel never did strangle Bree to death. |
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curiousGeorge
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Good points ShardinsKitten. I think the onus will be on the writers to have Bree post vids that will not reveal any of her future plans to the enemy.
Bree is very smart (well not so much of late...) and I hope they can pull this off with some kind of rational maneuver. Gonna be tough.
Perhaps a "secret server" that only we can see can be setup at the Mansion. Or icons attached to the vids to designate who sees what. I know this sounds absurd, but not as much as the alternative is...
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curiousGeorge
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Lurker wrote: |
<snip>
Then there's how they've all been acting so casual for the last few weeks when they were all still in danger, how poorly Bree and Jonas handled going to Cowboy's place, and -- more unrealistic than anything else, perhaps -- how Daniel never did strangle Bree to death. |
Yeah, well I didn't want to open any wounds by bringing those inconsistencies up at that same time. This is ENOUGH of a problem to address on it's own.
As for the strangling, . Kinda harsh but I know you were just making a point.
This is indeed my pet peeve logic flaw and it has just taken a turn for the worse. I think that if the writers had been more clever, this could have been worked out ahead of time and have it make more sense. Not sure how, but then again I did not paint them in this logical corner. They did. 
* Edited to reflect the fact I can't type and watch football at the same time...
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