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Who Sees What?
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Do you like our solution?
I like it! No changes, go for it.
67%
 67%  [ 152 ]
I like it, but I think you should tweak it (see my post below).
14%
 14%  [ 33 ]
I don't like it. I have a better idea (see my post below).
6%
 6%  [ 15 ]
I don't like it, but I don't have any ideas. I just like shooting yours down :)
11%
 11%  [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 225

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JustAnotherLonelyGirl.
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Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 2094
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it's a huge issue that some people might ignore your request to keep information a secret. First of all, we have moderators who are really great and trustworthy. They can warn people who try to reveal secrets and those who insist on disobeying, they can delete the posts. Second of all, just pretend the characters never saw it. Have no mention of it in the videos or anything at all, and everyone can just assume it never happened. It shouldn't be hard for people to accept.
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marlasinger
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Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[always lurking]

you know what the best part about LG15 is? that the creators NEVER EVER underestimate their fans, and that they always recognize them as characters.

In this case, though, it will be difficult if you are overestimating the fans. Doing something like this is begging for trolls and flamers and shitdisturbers on the net. And yet, I'll openly admit that it's the best choice currently.

So go for it, creators, and remember that the more power and input you give your fans, the more dedication you'll need in ensuring that things are going smoothly on the forums. We're counting on you as much as you're counting on us.

Marla
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Last edited by marlasinger on Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JustAnotherLonelyGirl.
P. Monkey's Agent


Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Who Sees What? Reply with quote

chershaytoute wrote:
I have a hunch (and this is one I'm not sure of, just a hunch) that there will also be Private Transmissions that go from the character characters to us, the fans...when we're to interact with things... That'd be a pretty cool piece, if added to the whole, IMO... Very Happy


That would be amazingly awesome. I hope the creators see that and do it.
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laurentius
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Joined: 07 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you should change it. The series works at the moment because everything is real. As soon as we start suspending disbelief about how we view the videos it loses a lot of its reality and makes it just another show. To maintain the reality it needs to be the case that if a video is posted anyone can see it.

Obviously the best way for the trio & OpAphid to keep their activities secret would be to stop making videos but then we wouldn't be able to follow the story and so that can't happen.

The way around the problem then should be in the writing of each episode. If people post spoilers in the comments/forum that we know the characters read we should only expect the characters to respond to certain comments. For example if someone posted 'hey Jessica and Yousef did you know this is fake' we wouldn't expect Bree or Daniel to respond - and the same should apply to OpAphid hints and spoilers.

You then still have the problem that The Order can track the trio by watching the videos - the ways to get around this could be as simple as not having the order turn up because they've seen a video but suggest they are tracking them by other methods for example they could have a satellite watching them which would be much more effective - after all the videos are usually posted on the move - and by the time they were uploaded the trio have usually moved on anyway - they could just as easily leave false clues in their videos about where they were going to throw the order off their scent.

You need to keep the 4th wall of reality in place, the best way to keep this real making sense is simply for the characters not to respond to something that would compromise it. /end essay.
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bakedbree
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beloved Creators: This is a great idea but I agree with those who say it's a bit confusing. In my job I have to keep a lot of information confidential and I find it very difficult at times to remember what is and is not OK to say. I don't post often but wouldn't want to have to think about who can know what if I decided to start posting more. Maybe I'm not sure what the solution is but I certainly appreciate your ongoing efforts to entertain us in new and wonderful ways
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Misty
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I htink its important to keep a separation between the Breenivers( interacting with the characters as if they were real people) and the productioniverse ( interacting with the Creators, cast and fans, acknowledging that the characters are fictional). The Creators violated this on you-tube already. taking Bree's profile and the videos out of the Breeniverse by branding them. now putting open "locked" videos up would make it even worse.


the solution would be
1: Restore Brees youtube profile to being that of a real girl. putting YouTube back into the Breeinverse.
2: remove the LG15 logo frames from the videos and have them posted in the account of the actual blogger.

3: in the open videos make reference to there being Locked videos, which don't get posted openly on Youtube but are sent to the characaters Video mailboxes on some other service (maybe myspace if they have that feature)

4: remove lonelygirl15.com from the breeniverse, Bree Daniel and Jonas don't know that site exists ( this will require replacing any video that makes mention of it. and moving the in character discussions to a separate forum that BD&J know about. (maybe call it lg15forum.com)

5: on lonelygir15. com have sections where you "become" Bree Daniel, Tachyon, OpAphid, etc. and can see their Private mailboxes.

6: post all videos On YouTube at the same time as Revver, and if money is an issue,have it be bree asking people to watch the revver videos to help her and daniel pay back jonas for alll the money he's spending on them.
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Cleo
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Joined: 14 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:14 pm    Post subject: Tweaking it Reply with quote

I am glad that you are confronting this problem. It's hard to have entertainment without dramatic irony or simply giving viewers a clue as to what's going on. However, I share Renegade's misgivings. The video-posting element is part of what makes THIS series different from a typical teen drama. Perhaps if you are successful in creating a new entertainment genre, your future ones could leave that feature out, but you guys chose the Blair-Witch approach to launching this, so it's not so easy to back out...not if you want to maintain the respect of a certain faction of your fans who have thusfar appreciated your creativity and integrity.

I suppose I have an inkling of an idea as to how you can use your solution but make this more of a "willing suspension of disbelief" (nice Samuel Coleridge guys) and not a "willing suspension of 'what the hell are they doing?!'" You could do the private transmission thing, but, through the videos, somehow create a character for us, the viewers, and what we've supposedly done to deserve to see this video. We could even collectively be a character if you want...or we could be a certain group of online viewers who've passed some sort of test.

As Renegade pointed out, having Daniel posting to "no one" is ridiculous. If you think that creating a web drama with no dramatic irony is difficult, how about directing actors with NO MOTIVATION! Why would Daniel post such a video? What would he be his goal? Having only diary-esque private videos would be tiresome.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Misty wrote:
I htink its important to keep a separation between the Breenivers( interacting with the characters as if they were real people) and the productioniverse ( interacting with the Creators, cast and fans, acknowledging that the characters are fictional). The Creators violated this on you-tube already. taking Bree's profile and the videos out of the Breeniverse by branding them.


I don't think that was causing the fictional aspect to cross over with the production aspect. When YouTube stopped being part of the fictional aspect, that couldn't happen. YouTube still exists in-universe, but they probably no longer upload their videos to it.

Misty wrote:
1: Restore Brees youtube profile to being that of a real girl. putting YouTube back into the Breeinverse.


Why would bringing YouTube back - after it's already made its exit, no less - be necessary? There are people on Revver that just vlog (and the site is based on the same concept as YouTube). Why would specifically YouTube be needed?

Misty wrote:
2: remove the LG15 logo frames from the videos and have them posted in the account of the actual blogger.


Though all three of them use the same account, they sign which one of them is doing the uploading. And, really, there's no point in them using their own accounts anymore anyway. Bree said a while back that they were going to continue filming things so that there'd be a record of all that happened in case they were caught.

If that's their motivation for filming, then it really wouldn't make sense for them to be using different accounts from an in-universe perspective to begin with.

Misty wrote:
4: remove lonelygirl15.com from the breeniverse, Bree Daniel and Jonas don't know that site exists...


The thing is, they do know it exists. You can't just pretend that they don't know that after the fact. And why would they anyway? It's a fan's site in the fictional world, not the Creators' site for the series.

Misty wrote:
6: post all videos On YouTube at the same time as Revver, and if money is an issue,have it be bree asking people to watch the revver videos to help her and daniel pay back jonas for alll the money he's spending on them.


Just watching the vids on Revver doesn't provide revenue (it's clicking the ads at the end that does it). Anyway, I seriously can't see them having their fictional character asking to help them make money. That would be mixing the fictional world with the production world - and in an insanely tasteless manner.

Even as somebody who was completely with the fine product placement and how it was handled in "Truckstop Reunion," something like that would annoy me (and probably a lot of other people).

Cleo wrote:
We could even collectively be a character if you want...or we could be a certain group of online viewers who've passed some sort of test.


This reminds me. Even though sites like YouTube will let you allow only people you'd like to have see your videos do so, how would BD&J know who they could allow on their list? How would they know they weren't friending Lucy, or someone who was just going to spill their secrets to the other two? And why/how would they be cool with excluding one another from their lists?


Last edited by Lurker on Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
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librarian
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the creators implement the protected transmission videos, will we have to go somewhere other than lonelygirl15.com to view them?

I've been casually watching these videos for a long time now. I'm not into the ARG, and I really like that I can just come to one place, view the videos, and follow the story without having to invest a lot of time and effort. I just hope I'm not going to have to do a ton of digging around to find the protected videos or anything.
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Misty
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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Location: Berzerkely, CA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lurker wrote:
Misty wrote:
I htink its important to keep a separation between the Breenivers( interacting with the characters as if they were real people) and the productioniverse ( interacting with the Creators, cast and fans, acknowledging that the characters are fictional). The Creators violated this on you-tube already. taking Bree's profile and the videos out of the Breeniverse by branding them.


I don't think that was causing the fictional aspect to cross over with the production aspect. When YouTube stopped being part of the fictional aspect, that couldn't happen. YouTube still exists in-universe, but they probably no longer upload their videos to it.

Well then if they no longer post to YouTube then why are there still videos on being uploaded to you tube. if you want to take youtube out of the breeniverse, then do it completely, change the catagory to "entertainment" and remove any Breeniverse content from all of the profiles. the you can have the lonelygirl15 productions poasting there fictional TV show to youtube which is outside the Breenivesrs and all fanfic reply's to the characters are meaningless.

Lurker wrote:
Misty wrote:
1: Restore Brees youtube profile to being that of a real girl. putting YouTube back into the Breeinverse.


Why would bringing YouTube back - after it's already made its exit, no less - be necessary? There are people on Revver that just vlog (and the site is based on the same concept as YouTube). Why would specifically YouTube be needed?

because they never made a clean exit, they the characters never said they were leaving youtube and posting on revver instead. from a story point of view they are still posting on youtube.

Lurker wrote:
Misty wrote:
2: remove the LG15 logo frames from the videos and have them posted in the account of the actual blogger.


Though all three of them use the same account, they sign which one of them is doing the uploading. And, really, there's no point in them using their own accounts anymore anyway. Bree said a while back that they were going to continue filming things so that there'd be a record of all that happened in case they were caught.

If that's their motivation for filming, then it really wouldn't make sense for them to be using different accounts from an in-universe perspective to begin with.
well that would work if youtube exists in the productioniverse and not in the breenivers. but if the characters still have any connection with Youtube then separation between the productioniverse and the Breeinverse colapses.

Lurker wrote:
Misty wrote:
4: remove lonelygirl15.com from the breeniverse, Bree Daniel and Jonas don't know that site exists...


The thing is, they do know it exists. You can't just pretend that they don't know that after the fact. And why would they anyway? It's a fan's site in the fictional world, not the Creators' site for the series.
Well if they know about the site then Bree knows she's a fictional character played by Jessica Rose. or they lonely girl15 site they go to isn't the lonely girl15 sie we go to so we cease to be part of the Breeniverse and are only viewers of the fictional series, who view it from outside the breeniverse.

Lurker wrote:
Misty wrote:
6: post all videos On YouTube at the same time as Revver, and if money is an issue,have it be bree asking people to watch the revver videos to help her and daniel pay back jonas for alll the money he's spending on them.


Just watching the vids on Revver doesn't provide revenue (it's clicking the ads at the end that does it). Anyway, I seriously can't see them having their fictional character asking to help them make money. That would be mixing the fictional world with the production world - and in an insanely tasteless manner.

Even as somebody who was completely with the fine product placement and how it was handled in "Truckstop Reunion," something like that would annoy me (and probably a lot of other people).
No it's not mixing anythng because we would be part of the Breenivrse. It's reasonable for Bree and Daniel to try to make money from posting their videos, which as viewers within the Breenivers wecan accomodate. but if we have the Prducers trying to make money from Revver, then we are viewing from the productioniverse, raising money for the production.
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robtomorrow
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Joined: 25 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

curiousGeorge wrote:
Lurker's impassioned response was eloquent, thoughtful, and much appreciated.

I will be a little more blunt... I think the credibility of a vlog based plot is going to be very difficult at this point, whatever mechanics are employed to try and keep some sense of credibility intact. We have seen the Phoenix of Bree's intelligence in the last vid, and surely she won't be broadcasting all her plans to the Orderites anymore. My guess is that this Phoenix is what prompted this post/poll. Bree is done being stupid. Yeah! BUT, now the plot has to make sense again... And here we are.

I have been lambasted (and no this is not about me) for suggesting that the addition of the ARG elements were the reason why the series lost any kind of logical sensibilities. I stand by this. BUT, not because I don't "like" the ARG or the people involved. It's just that this addition to a series where, by definition, the characters reveal a LOT about themselves is totally at odds with each other. Vlogs are about sharing, the incredibly moving "My Lazy Eye" was about sharing private experiences with the world. I just don't see how the vlog format is compatible with all the "cloak and dagger" material associated with the ARG. It just doesn't fit.

Soooo then things start to fall apart from a logical standpoint. OK, it's time to fix it. Good. But I have to agree that the mechanics of maintaining this SOD are going to be very challenging, especially for newer viewers. I am afraid though that the corner has already been written into. Now we need deux ex machina style mechanics to get us out of it... Tough. I wish I had the magic bullet, I'm Breally sorry I don't. Again, I do appreciate that you are trying though.

Despite my complaining, I keep watching and probably will continue to do so. I am NOT the target demo though and I doubt many who have responded in this thread are... Perhaps the target demo is one who are more interested in video game FPS style delivery than traditional narrative and plot. I do think you need to get a handle on this though as there is a tremendous potential with the ARG elements to tell a really engaging story at this point and a really cool mechanism for fans to interact with the storyline. Even the most rabid fans will get a WTF feeling is this issue is not addressed though...

I view this whole thing as a grand and messy experiment in storytelling and I continue to enjoy watching as it evolves. Good luck.


I agree with curiousGeorge, the corner was turned when OpAphid became canon. In the beginning it stretched the imagination that Bree's parents, Lucy and the Deacons, etc. were unaware of the Vblogs, but with suspension of disbelief it still worked on a fictional level, but when OpAphid became canon, it shattered the illusion, because OpAphid was nothing if not Internet savvy.

The waters were further muddied when the double agent Gemma came into the picture, when Jonas gave us evidence that he has seen Tachyons videos, and finally when an OpAphid video was posted on the main page.

Each step has confused the issue further, now the question is how to bring back an illusion that has been dispelled.

I would have LG15 videos posted on one page, and a separate page similar to the LG15 main page to post OpAphid videos, possibly with a new home page where you can navigatge to one or the other. Then leave it amgibuous, ( I don't have a better word for it) as to who can see what.

Confusing the matter further with "private transmissions" I don't think helps the situation.

This is of course assuming that OpAphid/Tachyon are going to still be an important part of the narrative going forward.


Last edited by robtomorrow on Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Misty wrote:
Well then if they no longer post to YouTube then why are there still videos on being uploaded to you tube.


I think you know the answer to that already since you've mentioned YouTube quite a bit (that's where most of the audience is).

Misty wrote:
if you want to take youtube out of the breeniverse, then do it completely, change the catagory to "entertainment" and remove any Breeniverse content from all of the profiles.


I don't think they're trying to pretend YouTube is no longer within the Breeniverse (it's been mentioned in the videos more than once, so it would be impossible to do now), but the characters just aren't using it anymore.

I can sort of see your point about taking the in-character content out of there, but at the same time, it's easy to just assume the characters stopped uploading their videos to YT after a certain point and left their profiles the same. In other words, once the videos with the logo-bearing thumbnails came along, assume the video before that was the last they uploaded to YT.

We'd already had to accept that some of the older videos had a line of separation between what BD&J put in and what they didn't (the "LG15.com - Explore the Breeniverse" ads obviously weren't put in by them), so this isn't really any harder to picture, is it?

Misty wrote:
you can have the lonelygirl15 productions poasting there fictional TV show to youtube which is outside the Breenivesrs and all fanfic reply's to the characters are meaningless.


Not necessarily. Nikki Bower still puts fanfic replies on YT. One would just have to assume that those replies weren't linked to the video in question. In other words, they're a reply to a video that's on Revver (which isn't all that farfetched if people from both sites watch).

Misty wrote:
from a story point of view they are still posting on youtube.


I disagree. They've not given any indication that they continue posting to YT, and the Creators have stated that YT is no longer part of things in-universe. I'd say they almost definitely stopped posting there.

Misty wrote:
Well if they know about the site then Bree knows she's a fictional character played by Jessica Rose. or they lonely girl15 site they go to isn't the lonely girl15 sie we go to so we cease to be part of the Breeniverse and are only viewers of the fictional series, who view it from outside the breeniverse.


The LG15.com site has been acknowledged since the video "Aleister Crowley." BD&J can only see this site's in-character sections, though (where any mention of Jessica Rose or Yousef or Jackson cannot be seen by them even if it's posted).

If you're logged in right now, log out and look at the banner at the top of the screen. It says "A Tribute to lonelygirl15." That's what the site is for them: A fan's tribute. For them that banner probably stays there regardless of whether they're logged in.

Misty wrote:
No it's not mixing anythng because we would be part of the Breenivrse. It's reasonable for Bree and Daniel to try to make money from posting their videos, which as viewers within the Breenivers wecan accomodate.


I suppose that's true - but if she were to ask, it would clearly be for production purposes, and I'd think that tasteless. Putting an out-of-universe notice at the beginning of one of the videos asking the same thing but without the pretense that it's in-universe would be much better. I don't mind them asking for assistance, but if they're going to ask, they should outright ask.
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bubbleteagirl
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted against it... but, without a reason why. Although, thinking about it more... I've changed my mind and I think it could work for sure. Just as long as not every video is a "private" video.

But... go for it! Sounds like it could be interesting!
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Joe
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:39 pm    Post subject: Personal Diary Reply with quote

I can see this work for Bree, Daniel, and Jonas. A personal diary incase something happens to them. A record of who they were and what happened to them. But I don't know how that would work for Tachyon, Opaphid, or anyone in the order.
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Nieriel.Manwathiel
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My tentative "I like it" vote was more that I agree this is something that will need to be thought out very thoroughly. But I got some rough ideas.

What if the beginning says something like "This video is screen name and password protected (so only the intended person can view this, n'kay? N'kay.)" and there's a screen name and password field.

instead of us doing anything, a mouse will move onscreen and the intended viewer will type in their character's name and a password (which will be some number of asterisks Wink all passwords are) and then it will load.

but to get the point across to newbies, the person making the vid will always state how they're meaning this to be for the person
(i.e. instead of "hey guys" it'd be more like "so, tachyon" or "bree you hoe! ~signed the shovel"Laughing)
and maybe even every once in a while toss in how not only is the message for one intended person, but it's not to be accessible to others
(i.e. "i'm so glad we set up these password protected programs!" "you didn't let anyone have your password so they could see this, did you? yeah, i thought not.")

And also, I think every "protected transmission" should have a link on the page that say something like "confused about the new format?" and leads to a pedia page that explains all this.

oh, and just in case, i know you might think this is captain obvious talking here, but people in charge of the characters should ignore newbs who don't read these new "codes of conduct" and try to tell the other characters.

another addition; what if some characters (canon or not) could see the titles and voice that they're curious about what it could be or concerned that the character isn't viewed as trustworthy enough to be told this (i think this should be acceptable in this realm of suspended belief)


sorry if i'm regurgitating ideas, guys, but i don't have time to read through 6 pages of posts.

but thanx, create-a-trons for always thinking outside the box! though as Tucker from "red vs blue" would say
"I like the box; it's safe! There's a reason it's there"


edit -- because I can
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