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FanFic Section - How would you design it?
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Ziola
The Order of Denderah


Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wintermute wrote:
Ziola wrote:
I think that BK plans to combine them all, he's just too busy today to get to it


To be fair, he should move the threads to their respective fanfic sections, instead of combining them all. It would be impossible to follow OpA then, wouldn't it? But it's fanfic, and it should be split into the sections the same as any other fanfic. Else there's no logic in keeping the fanfic section the way it is...

'mute
Embarassed My bad...I was referring to the big white elephant in the forum (Op)
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wintermute
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry... I'm just whining because it's getting to be a PITA to follow things. Wink

'mute
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Luminous
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wintermute wrote:
Sorry... I'm just whining because it's getting to be a PITA to follow things. Wink

'mute


Here is an example of what is now occuring as a result of the current architecture of the fanfic section:

MaddisonAtkinsLiveJournal wrote:
Hello, welcome to the Maddison Atkins Live Journal

I created this so we could all collect our info in one place without getting muddled up with the rest of the LG stuff on their forum. If this takes off, I'll create a forum of our own to use.


I pulled this quote directly off of the Maddison Atkins Live Journal page:
http://community.livejournal.com/maddisonatkins/

Why would we want the Maddy Atkins forum to move off of the LG15 site? Don't we want to increase the traffic to this site?

This is what happens with all fan fic args when they reach a certain level of activity - they end up moving off of the site, because it becomes impossible to organize the puzzle clues and follow the story.

The solution is quite simple, really. Maddy needs a dedicated section of the forum, as do all ARGs, when they reach a certain level of activity. If the ARG dies, then it can be archived.
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wintermute
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I grumbled when the livejournal page was brought up. LG15.com should contain a repository of all knowledge of things LG-related. (I joked about registering a domain myself. But I could never bring myself to do it.)

Sure, this ARG is only about 2-4 days old (depending on when you mark the beginning. With the TFW page or with the actual clues arising from the maddyatkins stuff).. But there are no less than 10 threads already, and some of those could probably stand to be split. But with the current structure, I think we're afraid to create any more for fear of the conversation getting lost in the sea of other fanfics...

And yes, the solution *is* that simple. But the powers-that-be are not listening. Maybe the threat of moving material off-site will change that...

'mute
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immortal1
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed OpAphid, Tachyon and Brother sections are gone now from the Character Discussion area and the In Character Discussion area. So basically the forum is smaller than it was a week ago and adding sections for the Fan ARG and not make the forum any bigger.

I don't know if anyone listened to Mixed Media 4/10 but Miles said after the redesign scheduled for June/July comes each fan creation profile can generate it's own forum. This is similar to what livevideo.com does with it's profiles. So really any change that is made to the Fan Creations Section, even some that already have been made, become obsolete when those new features arrive. It's pretty much a free pass.

I also think it would be productive to talk about the criteria that should be used to decide if a Fan ARG gets it's own section. You know if you give someone a section today, next week someone will pop up and will be asking where their section is. Do views and subscribers factor in? Threads created? Maybe threads per week? For example, Guillotine Calamity moved to an off site forum quite some time ago, she posted a new vid. 2 weeks ago, does she get a section? What has to happen for a Fan ARG section to be archived?
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giddeanx
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

immortal1 wrote:


I also think it would be productive to talk about the criteria that should be used to decide if a Fan ARG gets it's own section. You know if you give someone a section today, next week someone will pop up and will be asking where their section is. Do views and subscribers factor in? Threads created? Maybe threads per week? For example, Guillotine Calamity moved to an off site forum quite some time ago, she posted a new vid. 2 weeks ago, does she get a section? What has to happen for a Fan ARG section to be archived?



I would imagine the shear number of posts would determine if a arg gets a section. If the number of puzzles, clues, and video posts take up a decent amount of space in a section; a separate section should be created. Just imagine what the indepth discussion would look like if the other sections didn't exsist. Sections should be created not only to house the posts important to that topic but should also (as a rule) help remove the chaff for people who are not interested in it.

If Calamity moved of site to another forum then so be it. They don't get a thread because they are not taking up space. Easy enough.

Unfiction's forum does this all the time.
A new arg comes in, it is thrown into a promising arg section with a bunch of other args.
The args that rise to the top are skimmed off and get thier own section.
When that arg withers and dies or meets its natural end its section is archived.
On to the next.
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immortal1
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

giddeanx wrote:
Unfiction's forum does this all the time.
A new arg comes in, it is thrown into a promising arg section with a bunch of other args.
The args that rise to the top are skimmed off and get thier own section.
When that arg withers and dies or meets its natural end its section is archived.
On to the next.


That's pretty interesting set up. http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/ I tried to see if there were rules to go from ARGs with potential to getting your own section. Looks like you have to have your ARG introduces in News and Rumors first. A couple of other interesting rules, they frown upon starting second accounts to set up the ARG and also using that account to tag potential players or prod people along in the game.

Obviously if we could make subforums there wouldn't be a problem. I wonder why not? It looks like the same version of php. I wonder if we could somehow cheat subforums? Can you create more than one forum? Then we could put links to those forums in the current forum section description. It wouldn't be a subforum because it wouldn't be nested but would function the same way.


Last edited by immortal1 on Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Luminous
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

immortal1 wrote:
giddeanx wrote:
Unfiction's forum does this all the time.
A new arg comes in, it is thrown into a promising arg section with a bunch of other args.
The args that rise to the top are skimmed off and get thier own section.
When that arg withers and dies or meets its natural end its section is archived.
On to the next.


That's pretty interesting set up. http://forums.unfiction.com/forums/ I tried to see if there were rules to go from ARGs with potential to getting your own section. Looks like you have to have your ARG introduces in News and Rumors first. A couple of other interesting rules, they frown upon starting second accounts to set up the ARG and also using that account to tag potential players or prod people along in the game.

Obviously if we could make subforums there wouldn't be a problem. I wonder why not it? It looks like the same version of php. I wonder if we could somehow cheat subforums? Can you create more than one forum? Then we could put links to those forums in the current forum section description. It wouldn't be a subforum because it wouldn't be nested but would function the same way.


This sounds very reasonable. I'm really glad you guys are willing to take a look at this. Very Happy Thanks.
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Broken Kid
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I was thinking about this last night, and please forgive if this post runs long.

When we created this new organization, a lot of people reacted, which shows folks really care about this area. I tried to explain the reasoning behind the new organization and discuss this with folks, but somehow people interpreted this as unwilling to listen and unwilling to change. I want to reiterate that I (and the other mods) are always willing to listen and change.

Note that suggestions so far, however, have been quite extremely different. Some want everything condensed into one section (similar to before). Others want everything separated into their own sections (which would significantly expand the forum). These are the two extremes, and I think between them, we can find a happy compromise. Not everyone will be happy, but as long as the organization works for folks, we'll accomplish our goals.

Some of our objectives are these:
1) To make sure every video (even one-off videos) gets equal coverage. This is why New Releases is limited to videos, so a new video doesn't get lost in the shuffle. That happened before, and it was a deterrent to folks creating videos.
2) To not expand the forum so that fan fiction overtakes LG15 in size and scope. In other words, forums that get little use are not necessary and can be combined. The Cassie forum was a great example: It was almost exclusively itscassie, which is not an ARG, and there seemed no reason not to treat itscassie like other videos.
3) To allow folks to discuss videos, series, and ARGs to the extent needed. If a new ARG pops up and has multiple threads, and if folks are excited about it, we don't want to stifle that discussion.

The reasoning behind this structure was that it worked for LG15. Video Discussion and Plot Discussion seemed to work, so we wanted to use the same approach with New Releases and In-Depth Discussion. I still think this will work for typical videos, but it may not be fitting for more in-depth ARGs.

So here's what I propose (and hopefully you read this far). If you have a suggested re-organization, please outline in PM what it would look like. I ask for PMs so that I can discuss it with you and ask questions productively. You can make your suggestion here, of course, but via PM would be most helpful. A lot of people have made suggestions, but I want specifics. How would you like to see it designed? Note: If you feel you've done this already, you probably haven't suggested a specific organization, or please do so again.

Let me know your full suggestions, and we'll discuss it, and we'll aim to meet that compromise! I think this will result in something people can appreciate. Again, I realize not everyone will be happy (and in fact, many people like the current structure despite how this forum makes it appear!), but we are willing to make changes!

Thank you!
-BK
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immortal1
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BK comes through again!

No surprise but I agree with your reasoning.

I think I found that cheat too. PM on the way.
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ShardinsKitten
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad more people are seeing this as a problem now.
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Broken Kid
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you'll probably notice: we have added a new section of the forum: LG15 Fan ARGs.

Currently there is a forum for Facility J and one for Maddison Atkins. These are the only two areas that are planned for new forums right now. Please use those areas for both discussion of new videos and in-depth discussion. To simplify things, those threads will serve as a repository for all discussion of the respective ARGs.

I realize that this will require some editing of LGpedia links and summary links. Trainer volunteered to help update some of the links. In the long run, though, this should simplify things.
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trainer101
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All forum, LGpedia and external links appear to be working. Let me know if I missed any.
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Killthesmiley
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this will probably work a lot better guys
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immortal1
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since OpAphid is no longer I imagine there are a lot of gameplayers floating around.

FacilityJ had a head start but MaddieAtkins has the benefit of excellent timing, with this new setup they'll have equal opportunity to grow. It will be interesting to see what it all looks like in a month or so.

I'd imagine if they couldn't grow significantly under these circumstances it might be a little harder for the next ARG to get their own section. No pressure guys, good luck!
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