Difference between revisions of "Talk:Knights Templar"

Revision as of 09:17, 21 November 2006

This page is pretty disjointed, full of spelling and grammatical errors, as well as being a bit factually inaccurate: ie. the Knights Templar were not a secret society, but an actual order of knights. Their actual name was The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon. They were a christian military order that took part in the crusades.

Part of the beauty of a wiki is that if you see errors you can make corrections Your assistance in that process is certainly welcome. Some of the spelling errors are with a quote. In time we can probably analyse the quote and repace it with more accurate information.......but for now it serves as a starting point.--modelmotion 16:37, 18 November 2006 (PST)

The last edit created a nice summary of the Knighs but its almost a Wikipedia style article and I know that takes a lot of work so its great. However our goal here is to relate the Knights to the LG story or at least to the religious speculation that surrounds the story line. Some of the original information tried to do that and it would be nice if we could integrete that into the excellent reference material that has been added in the last edit.--modelmotion 10:22, 20 November 2006 (CST)

I really don't understand how that would be possible. Bree already said she wasn't a christian and we're talking about an order of christian monks/warriors that really don't fit. So, I just typed out what I knew about the Templars.

it would be good if you could add that information. Negative information that suggest something is not true is just as useuful to people like myself who are researching the topic. You make a good point and it would be great to have that incorporated into the page.--modelmotion 15:53, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Well, the problem I see with all this is that the Creators have stated it's not a real order or religion...that they've made it up as a work of fiction. So, no amount of trying to tie a real order in with it will work...because once you start investigating the real order, you realize that things do not fit. There are things from numerous real orders that DO fit, but if you take those similarities and try to say it's that order, you begin running into all the reasons that it can't be that order....because none of this aligns with any one order...and wasn't meant to. This order that Bree belongs to takes many inspirations, but doesn't exist in reality.

That was also my problem with trying to insinuate it was the OTO. For one, I'm a member of the OTO. It is something I cherish and hold dear. For someone to insinuate Bree's order is the OTO, it's virtually the same as accusing our order of cultlike behaviour: disregarding the wills of others and usurping them through threats and violence, kidnapping, etc. So, it's really a huge insult to try and pin this on a real order. For another, the OTO is not only a thelemic order, it's the largest group of thelemites in the world. So, by saying it's not Thelema, the creators are saying there is no way possible it's the OTO. This scenario is MUCH like someone saying "I'm not a christian" and the other replying "So, are you a Catholic then?"

So, I personally have problems with trying to pin Bree's order on any one order...partially because I've studied at least some about many of these orders and realize it can't be them, partially because I know the creators borrowed aspects of many different groups to make this order, and partially because of the insult factor involved with insinuating any legitimate order would be engaged in this type of criminal and otherwise terrible behaviour.

I haven't gotten around to making an account in here...and I guess I should do that soon. But, my IP address rarely changes so it's a good indicator of me. But, I'm tannhaus. I don't participate in the forums anymore..I stated my reasons there. I do, however, comment to the videos themselves at times, post video responses, and participate a bit in here. I do not know whether it was cast or crew that responded to my email. I've debated at times whether I should post the email that was sent to me. But, considering it might be helpful to others in seeing how the creators are drawing from many different sources, I will here. My email I sent to them was:

"I'm interested to know why the Creators took a real religion (Thelema) that has been much maligned in the past, the prophet of Thelema (Crowley), also much maligned, and make a series that is the very antithesis of Thelema and what Crowley worked his whole life to promulgate.

As a Thelemite, it's very disheartening to see my religion maligned and bashed once again, all for nothing. It does not add anything to your series to associate your cult with our religion. So, why do it?"

And their reply was:

"We understand and appreciate your question. Please know that it is not our intention to malign or discredit the Thelema religion. The religion we have created for this series is entirely fictional. It is as much related to fictional Chrisitain cults and secret societies as it is to Thelema."

If this upsets anyone involved in the making of the series that I would make this public, please remove it and I'll take that to mean that I shouldn't in the future.

Wow, that was incredibly insightful. Thank you very much for that. This is the first knowledge I have of the statement that the creators admitted that Bree's religion was ficticious. I had come to the conclusion that it was probably a combination of religions or orders and I think what we want to do in the LGpedia is identify what has been drawn from where and how it could all be fit together to make something that makes sense. Please understand that many of us are new to these topics and have only been drawn in by the LG series. People like myself know little more than what they read on wikipedia. Further any statements made by characters about what is true or not cannot be believed because of the nature of the series. Hence they only real information we have is the e-mail you received. That becomes a critical document in the history of LG15 and I hope that you will share it in a relevant article. You could also be of great value in guiding those of us who are new thru the various orders etc. Our goal here is not to insult anyone and if i contribued it was through lack of education about the topic. This started out as a source of entertainment and fun and I dont think anyone considerd the impact on those in the real world. In a way the series is a weird mixture of the real and the fictional and thats whats what makes it a little tricky. Still it should be our goal on LGpedia to link things to the LG story line and thats what we try to do. I certainly dont believe that The Oder is real for a number of reason, but that does not make it any less fun to document and explore. Some of that process involves exploration of groups such as the O.T. O. and we are very privaledged to have someon with your experience guide us. Hopefully if we work together we can create an LGpedia thats informative about these groups, shows how they are relevant and then clearly indicates how the real world groups differ from the ficticion land of LG15.--modelmotion 03

17, 21 November 2006 (CST)

Incidentally did you sent your e-mail before or after the Gemma video where she said it was not Thelema. If it truly is not connected then you might try asking the creators to remove the sign for Thelema from the Lonelygirl15 website. Its details like that that make me think Gemma is a liar. Perhaps her comment was actually in response to your e-mail--modelmotion 03:17, 21 November 2006 (CST)