Difference between revisions of "Template talk:Init"

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Well, I guess we'll be needing an Initial for Mr. Steve now . . . I'll suggest "SB" for starters --[[User:Phoenician|Pheon]] 14:13, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
Well, I guess we'll be needing an Initial for Mr. Steve now . . . I'll suggest "SB" for starters --[[User:Phoenician|Pheon]] 14:13, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
::Sve could work, or Stv.

Revision as of 19:20, 14 August 2007


{{Init|Bree}} = LG

{{Init|Daniel}} = DB

{{Init|Jonas}} = JTKO

{{Init|Gemma}} = G19

{{Init|OpAphid}} = [Op]

{{Init|Tachyon}} = TAC

{{Init|Brother}} = BRO

{{Init|Nikki Bower}} = NBR

{{Init|Paulmark18}} = ???????

{{Init|the Order}} = ORD

{{Init|Taylor}} = SocSkyblueStar.png

{{Init|Jules}} = CMJ

{{Init|Cassieiswatching}} = CiW

{{Init|Sarah}} = SIE

{{Init|Spencer}} = LALR

{{Init|WarPylol}} = ???????

{{Init|Kate}} = A

{{Init|Charlie}} = COT

{{Init|Gavin}} = DG

{{Init|Tariq}} = T287

{{Init|Alex}} = TCC

{{Init|anything else}} = ???????

The Order

I tried putting {{Init|The Order}} on the Main Page entry for Subjects Apprehended, but it wasn't working correctly. I'm not sure what could be wrong. Would you mind checking that out, Jay?
OwenIsCool 01:00, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

OH, ugh... it's case sensitive. --JayHenry 08:27, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
wow, that was simple. I should have looked to see how it was typed in on the working example. Thanks for fixing it. OwenIsCool 08:55, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


Thanks for getting that right, Jay. I guess I should know what I'm doing before I change a template on the Main Page. Luckily, I noticed it within about a minute and no real harm done. I actually think I had it pretty much right--just forget the "}}" for the if.--Jonpro 08:49, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

No worries at all. This template was really poorly designed because when I made it I didn't know about the #switch function. I've rewritten the template to use #switch and it's now very easy to add new people to the template. --JayHenry 13:57, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


Misty, I assume you got "OTS" from the whiteboard in About The Gun, but do we even know what it means yet? Why do you think it should be used here instead of "ORD"?--Jonpro 18:56, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Actually I thought for a long time that it should be OTS, because thats how the videos identify themselves "Transmission OTS - 0135 - 09 ", so I figured that OTS was trhe identifier for the subdivision of the order who transmitted the videos, when it showed up on the whiteboard that confirmed to me that I was right. And from later videos we could see that these videos were not made by someone representing the mainstream of the order, or else they wouldn't have been killed by the watchers for violating Bree's free will. -misty 19:24, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
Okay, thanks for explaining. I hadn't noticed the "Transmission OTS" thing in the descriptions.--Jonpro 19:28, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
OTS can stand for many many things, and we have not been told what OTS means in this context. One of the suggestions on the comment boards is that it means "On The Scene" since that is some kind of military slang. It could also stand for Ordo Templis Satanis (if you can believe the internet, anyway). Here's a list of other meanings OTS could have (link)--I'm not saying they all apply, but just to give you an idea. The creators stated at the forum that the videos were posted by the order and made no further statements as to what they might be calling themselves. I think OTS at this point is vague enough that we shouldn't be jumping to the conclusion that this is what the Order calls itself. Transmission On The Scene, actually sounds very viable to me. Having said that, I'm going to change it back to Order, with the request that this not be changed again until we know with certainty that is should be something else. Although ORD not as accurate as I would like (I'd like to know what branch we're talking about, for instance), it's at least not inaccurate. OwenIsCool 14:15, 23 April 2007 (CDT)


Well, I guess we need to add Taylor to our init template. Should she be Tay or maybe Soc★? --JayHenry 20:40, 16 May 2007 (CDT) My vote is for "Soc★", since it's the best abrev. for soccerstar. For some reason Zoey keeps removing the ★ without any explanation. Soc★ is what JayHenry Proposed and no one voiced an objection, so I think that we should keep it that way until there is some evidence to show a concensus for removing the ★. -misty 01:47, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

I enjoy having the star. Although the only reason I made the decision so quickly was because the main page templates don't work correctly without something in the init template, so I'm definitely open to discussion. I wonder if there's a browser problem. On an older browser the star might not display or display as something completely different? I thought it was a symbol that anyone could display. Zoey, are you seeing a five-point star after the letters "Soc" or something different? --JayHenry 10:20, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
Heh, I didn't even know that it was a symbol. No, it's just displaying as a box to me. � Like that. Although.. now I'm not sure how that box will display on YOUR screens. But yes, it just looks like a box to me. --Zoey 10:29, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
That's what i was afraid of... darn, the star is so cool! Let me see if there are other star symbols we can try. (btw, your box displayed as a question mark for me). --JayHenry 10:35, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
From Stars: Here are a handful of star symbols -- * ٭ ★✶✴ ⋆ ★ ☆ . Do any of them work in an older browser? --JayHenry 10:39, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
The first two display for me, the others are boxes. --Zoey 10:41, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
Soc٭ or Soc*? Hmm... I'm just not sure if everyone is going to get that it's a star with those symbols. Any other ideas?? It might be possible to upload a really small star image. I remember experimenting with a similar idea once and it cause problems, but I know a lot more about wikitext now. --JayHenry 10:49, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

Hrm, well we do have this Star.gif. Which is an image... --Zoey 10:51, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

We could reupload a green one? Or do we think that either of the asterisks is good enough? --JayHenry 15:12, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
I say reupload a green one where the bottom isn't cut off, and that way every browser sees it, and it's not a tiny asterisk. 15:20, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
I temporarily changed it to one of the asterisks. Once we get a working green star image, let's switch to that. --JayHenry 17:46, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
Um... I see the star now, FYI. ~ Jbshryne 00:38, 18 May 2007 (CDT)
I uploaded a star image and changed the template to use it everyone should see it now -misty 18:31, 23 May 2007 (CDT)

If your Browser supports UTF-8 encoding (which includes every Mac browser, every Gecko Browser for any platform and from what Chelseyrl said IE), then you can see all the stars. if you can't see it in any of those Browsers then you have disabled encoding detection, and set the encoding to something other than UTF-8. If you want to accomodate everyone who did that you need to use the standard asterisk (shift-8). -misty 02:07, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

OK I found out why some people are getting boxes and others are getting stars. Apparently windows doesn't have a complete unicode font that comes with it, but MS Office does. So if you have Office installed you will have Arial MS Unicode, which has all the stars. If you don't have office you need to download a unicode font. One that I know of is Code2000 -misty 01:30, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

Color Match

I think te colors here should match the colors for the character page. Daniel should be MidnightBlue, Taylor should be SkyBlue. if no one objects I'm going to make that change tomarrow morning -misty 21:44, 16 May 2007 (CDT)

Strong support. Oh yes, color match! :) I'm in <3 with organization. Misty, you rock. 15:19, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
I think they should match, but Taylor should be green on both initials and her character box because it's the color of her YouTube channel.[1] --JayHenry 15:25, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
Well none of the other characters match their YouTube channel, and green already is Owen's color. I'll wait till we have consensus to make the change -misty 02:50, 18 May 2007 (CDT)
Okay, I vote yes to change the color boxes to match their profiles. But if the initials for the characters get changed, I might get upset. I know Op is all matching, but she has an AphidPerson template, not a Person template. Any thoughts on not using AphidPerson anymore? Person is looking way better, I must say. silverX3 08:59, 19 May 2007 (CDT)

it seems that everyone who's spoken up wants the init colors to match the profile colors. I'm setting the colors to match the profiles and changing the profile colors for the aphid characters to make them unique -misty 20:47, 2 June 2007 (CDT)

Made Jules init

I made an init for Jules as well. silverX3 10:54, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

Hm, I was thinking that CMJ24 was a bit long. Maybe it would look better as Jul? Or J24? Or something. I don't know, I'm not personally crazy about it now, although I do like the use of colors! What do people think? (EDIT: Or how about just CMJ? I actually think that would look best...) --Zoey 20:32, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
Well, I went for CMJ24 to make the colors more differentiated from LG. Pink and pink makes it well... too pink. I made the "24" small like the "TKO" in JTKO so that it's not too long. The options - CMJ24, CMJ24, CMJ, J24, JUL, JUL24, JUL, JULA (for Andersen), or CMJ. I personally lean toward CMJ24. What about you? silverX3 15:45, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
I like CMJ because it sticks to her username, but cuts out the numbers, which we did do with others (like Bree). It keeps it from looking too long, which was my main concern with CMJ24. I agree that it's too pink though... maybe we should pick another color for her profile/her initials? --Zoey 12:58, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
I noticed that we had no red initials, so I made it red. But then I saw that Jules's person box on her page was HotPink. And that made it a little bit too similar to Bree, in my opinion. So, maybe we should change the profile box and the initials to red? silverX3 14:00, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
Red for both sounds good. I can go ahead and do that if there are no objections... --Zoey 18:43, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
I'm happy with any change that'll put some 'color distance' between Bree's and Jules' initials. --Pheon 19:06, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
We already agreed that we should use the same color for a character everywhere, so if you want jules to be red, you can't just do it here and on the profile, you also need to do it on the actor's page, and the list of characters page. This means, we then would have to change Color for Alex since Red is Already Alex's Color, and we have established a unique color for each characters on the list of characters page. I suggest that we have decide on the official color for each actor/character, and only allow changes when they don't conflict with another character's color and when there is a reason for the change it. Since when making the change from hotpink to red for Jules, it wasn't made everywhere, and since we haven't decided on a new color for Alex, I'm temporarily changing it back to HotPink until we establish, official colors. -misty 06:11, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Made CiW init

I just made an init for Cassieiswatching. silverX3 11:07, 20 May 2007 (CDT)


Hm, I'm not sure about the SkyIE for Sarah. It's kind of misleading. And it is not the name of her Youtube or anything, just her Myspace. Maybe we'd be better keeping it "Sar" for now? I think it would be clearer to people. Because I'm definately not the only one who was confused. Thoughts please?? :) --Zoey 20:36, 31 May 2007 (CDT)

I really liked SkyIE - Like someone said, its consistant with the other V-Bloggers in that their initials are abbreviations of their Usernames. That, and it shows that we pay attention to this kind of thing. Besides, maybe the creators have a future Revver/YouTube account ready to be activated soon with a similar name. --Pheon 21:25, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
On a further note, if people are confused, they can simply click on the Initial Tag . . . and then they'll know why SkyIE is so. At least for now . . . . --Pheon 21:47, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
Just popping in for a bit. I think the use of Sarah's screenname as the Init is consistent, but I don't like SkyIE. When I saw it the first time I thought "hey maybe this is some weird error message because I'm using Internet Explorer?". I know, weird. Still, SkyIE just doesn't have the same catchiness as LG, DB, Jtko or even G19. Perhaps just Sky would be better? And maybe in black? Sarah would want it in black, I think.  ;)
OwenIsCool 22:45, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
Okidokes, here's what I had in mind. It looks a little plain on here, but if you put it in the Main Page and preview, it looks nice and Sarah-ish. We can leave out the IE, it's not crucial. Even LG15 became LG in the Init template. All righty, take it away!
OwenIsCool 22:56, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 ::thumbs up:: ~ Jbshryne 22:58, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
Yay, OiC lives! Good to hear from you and I hope you're doing well on your travels. And I like the black "Sky". It does look very Sarah-ish.--Jonpro 23:03, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
I'm fine with Sky, and I definitely think Sarah would prefer Black! --Pheon 23:16, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
Sky is great. But I am not sure about black. Main page has lots of black bold stuff. One more piece of black text just wouldn't catch the eye like LG or Jtko do. Dark red maybe?
Sky by itself doesn't have the right feel for Sarah, what about SIE? I had my doubts about SkyIE, and almost changed it to SIE right away. If we Use SAR then we are ignoring the convention we have been using all along, and you know how crazy I get about inconsistency -misty 23:33, 1 June 2007 (CDT)
Maybe SIE, but with the IE notably smaller? That way people unfamiliar with "SkyisEmpty" see a BIG 'S' for Sarah, but we still have the smaller capital letters "IE" to remain consistant. Oy, did that even make sense?? --Pheon 00:09, 2 June 2007 (CDT)
Hm, I kinda like that idea.. :) --Zoey 19:06, 2 June 2007 (CDT)


I'm not sure how to make these things. could someone make a Warpylol one? --FH14 20:07, 29 June 2007 (EST)

I created one (War), the color needs to be changed though. I just wanted to get it up. --Zoey 20:55, 29 June 2007 (CDT)


I created a Spencer template (LALR) because I figure we should be expecting a blog from him soon. We need color suggestions though, any thoughts? --Zoey 20:55, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Okay, so based on precedence, we prefer an initial of the character's username, but something that's also easily recognizable and simple. So right now, I think LALR is just a tad too 'complex' for lack of a better word. Perhaps "Lab Rat" in all caps, and with RAT considerably smaller? As for color, how about gray? Keep in mind that I'm less attached to my color suggestion than my initial suggestion . . . . --Pheon 22:32, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
EDIT - Hold on, I just realized that LABrat isn't too much of an initial is it? So perhaps LRAT, with the RAT reasonably smaller? --Pheon 22:34, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
I did LALR because of LAlabrat which is his Youtube/Myspace screen name. LA (for LA) LR (for Lab Rat)... I changed the color to lime to match with his "Favorite color"... how's it look? --Zoey 17:10, 30 June 2007 (CDT)


The lonelydude15 parody series blogger needs an init. It could be like an LD with a green or blue color.

unofficial blogs don't use template:init, I removed the buggy usage from the lonleydude15 video pages -misty 01:53, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
If unofficial blogs do not use Template:Init, then why is there initials for Paulmark18? The Creators haven't told us that they're canon, have they? God, I hope not. They're horrible actors.   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 13:20, 15 July 2007 (CDT)


I think we should add a 24 on the end of Jules init because her username IS sort of CallMeJule24. Even though her account is probably inactive, it will clean things up a bit. What do you think? Love, -R- 01:23, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

Please read previous discussions before suggestion new ideas. Template_talk:Init#Made_Jules_init decided that we were going to leave the 24 out. Thanks. --Zoey 02:11, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

KateModern characters

the characters of katemodern should have inits so i tried to make some but they all got deleted

I imagine that's because its still a little early right now. Initials are created knowing both the username of the character (the lettering) as well as their personality (usually an influence of color, like Sarah's). Let a few videos air, I'm sure we'll be needing them then. --Pheon 22:32, 10 July 2007 (CDT)


I think we should add a initial for the HoO. Love, -R- 01:17, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Seeing as how we haven't had any videos that have been credited "Hymn of One" as the vlogger, I'd say this isn't necessary yet. So far, every HoO video is actually credited with "Bree" on the video itself, and that is the info we use to determine who the blogger is. --Zoey 01:31, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
Right. Considering HoO as the blogger may be credited later as a HoO video on account of Bree not really making, editing, writing, posting, or really doing anything with the blogs. She just reads what TCC tells her too, but I guess this isn't top priority right now. Love, -R- 01:38, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
We actually had some questions about who was posting what a while ago, and to solve it definitively, the Creators started "signing" the blogs so we know who officially posted them. If we ever get a blog crediting the HoO, or the Creators ever go back and recredit some of the old blogs, I would see a need for a HoO initial, however right now, I do not think it is necessary. --Zoey 01:43, 15 July 2007 (CDT)


When we do an init for Kate, I think it should be AH for abstract heart, and the two letters should be different colors because she is an artist.--Houdini(talk | contribs)

Here i made it. What do you think?A--Houdini (talk | contribs)

I made the templates for the other characters, but kept them all red, at least for now. Possibly later, once we know the characters better, we can switch them, but for right now, I actually think it looks kind of nice and consistant to keep the color that same "main" KM red color. --Zoey 23:31, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Since we already know though that Kate is colorful shouldn't we just do what i did. The two colors.

No, we really don't know much about Kate at this point, as she hasn't even posted any video blogs! For all we know, she'll come out tommorow saying her favorite color in the world is purple! I'm just saying, wait a little bit. And honestly, I think it looks nice and consistant, for the moment, to keep them all the red color to match the rest of the KM stuff. --Zoey 02:05, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
I think the initial should be something like this: Abst, or something shorter like Ab or just A
While I like the current AH initial, I do like the "A(Heart)" design: Maybe if the letter 'A' and heart were the same size? --Pheon 08:03, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

I have a problem when viewing the initial. I'm not sure if it's because of Internet Explorer 6, or if it's because of my screen resolution/width - or maybe because of Windows XP? I was over my grandma's house yesterday (she has Windows Vista) and it wasn't acting up. Anyways, on my computer, the heart doesn't look like a heart. It looks like... well, it just looks like an upside-down teardrop. Maybe you should get a picture of a heart and use it, just like we got a picture of a star for Taylor?   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 13:09, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

I'm currently using IE 6 and Windows XP, and it looks like a heart to me. I do however, feel that the heart IS too small -- it needs to be closer to the size of the "A".--Pheon 13:19, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
Well, Pheon, I'm not sure... maybe it's because my computer at home has a smaller width than yours. But about the size, I'm pretty sure that I would prefer it to be smaller than the "A." It looks better than that. It wouldn't bother me if it wasn't fixed, as I am getting a new (Vista, IE 7, 17" monitor) computer tomorrow, because I just built a fence. :) So, I wouldn't mind if it wasn't fixed, but I do think that for all the people that it looks like an upside-down teardrop to... well, on my home computer, the two lumps at the top of the heart are missing. The hole in between them is just filled in, so it looks like... not a heart. Just my opinion.   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 12:21, 21 July 2007 (CDT)


According to his bebo layout (plus the code on the banner), it looks as if the color for Gavin should be #0066ccfor a dark and #9cbeef for a light. Love, -R- 00:18, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Okay please allow me to reiterate, and hopefully for the last time. At the moment, all the KM characters will be red. I have listed my reasons why this will be. First off, we do NOT know the personalities of the characters until we have actually seen them in a few vidoes. And secondly, I'm not 100% sure that we're even going to have character colors, because I am really liking them all being red. It kind of creates a consitancy and uniformity... like an identity for the show. At this point, I really do think it's the right way to go. At least for NOW. --Zoey 01:02, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
zoey everyone else wants them to have colors
why don't you just let them get there wish
Houdini, Zoey's being rather decent on this: In the past we create the Initials based on their username AND Personality. As of 7/18/2007 (USA time), we've only has two videos from KATE, with only the slightest hint of her personality. And we can only guess/predict how Charlie, Gavin, and Tariq will be. We've already gotten the lettering for their initials down, so let's be patient when it comes to colors. Soon enough we'll get to know the cast enough to where worrying about this will actually matter. Just enjoy the show for the time being, man. --Pheon 22:56, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Adding Alex

So, I'm sure it's obvious that Proceed with Caution was a blog by Alex, as might have been Apology Accepted?. Alex doesn't have a username, so what will we do for her initials?   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 11:02, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Should it be aunt not alex though because most of the inits are like that, without real names.

But this looks good.

Alex already has a username -- TCC, remember?? It's a pretty big revelation, so itstead of spoiling everyone of Alex's return, why not just use her own alias?? --Pheon 18:15, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
I have to go with TCC. Love, 20:05, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
Oh, yeah, I forgot about TCC. Let's go with that.   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 20:27, 25 July 2007 (CDT)


Due to the fact the creators are messing with our heads by making a recap video from the point of Jonas, yet putting it in a weird view of things, the creators are just gonna be considered the blogger. I was thinking for an initial we could do: Create or Cre8 Nerdy, but its shorter. Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [10:40 PM, Central Daylight]

Actually, I like CREATE because its in all caps, but we can also do CRE ... I really don't know. We can just do ??????? for now.Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [10:45 PM, Central Daylight]
I like CRE; simple and direct. And I really think it should be up there. The "rainbow of question marks" kind of annoys me. ~ JBSHRYNE 09:17, 2 August 2007 (CDT)


Speak to Me!, IMO, is undoubtedly a blog by Carla (see the talk page). Unfortunately, we know so little about her that's it's near impossible to come up with an appropriate signature. Thoughts? ~ JBSHRYNE 21:43, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

I do beleive it's a Carla blog as well (the Description is evidence enough), but I would personally like to see another Carla vid OR EVEN the next vid Jonas is in because then we may have more evidence on what happened. Again, I do beleive it's a Carla vid but let's wait before we do anything. --Pheon 00:37, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
Well, Carla is extremely annoying. Whats an extremely annoying color? Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [4:43 PM, Central Daylight]
BRIIIIIGHT green is exremely annoying because it makes me go blind!   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 15:46, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
OMGCARLA!!! :D Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [3:53 PM, Central Daylight]
OMGHII'MCARLA!!! :-D   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 15:57, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
:D WTFI'MRLAANDTHISISANANNOYINGINITIAL!!! Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [4:01 PM, Central Daylight]
Randy, you've done it! We simply need to go with that! :D   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 16:10, 10 August 2007 (CDT)


Okay, so clearly, this guy came with his own signature/logo, so I'm gonna go ahead and make it. ~ JBSHRYNE 12:39, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Hmmm... the R! thing is cool (it makes me feel special) but I was thinking it could be like LAREZ I dunno, I like it. The only problem with this is everything is gonna look like LALR if we actually do it by the username, so never mind. Keep the R!, but I was thinking maybe we can make the color change between the characters not so drastic 0.o Ah, whatever. Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [3:32 PM, Central Daylight]
I like R! too, considering LaRezisto is basically screaming RESISTANCE!, and in the background is, undoubtedly, "R!".   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 15:58, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
I agree with you, Randy, the color change was a bit drastic. I changed it from LimeGreen, to the ForestGreen that you used in your comment. I think it looks better now. ~ JBSHRYNE

Guess what I ffffoooouuuunnnddd!?!?! ЯЯЯЯЯЯЯ <<<A BACKWARDS R! Heck yes! I'll work it in if there are no objections :D Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [10:59 PM, Central Daylight]

You know what??? I looked for it, too, but I couldn't find it. AWESOME. :-> ~ JBSHRYNE 00:07, 11 August 2007 (CDT)


Well, I guess we'll be needing an Initial for Mr. Steve now . . . I'll suggest "SB" for starters --Pheon 14:13, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Sve could work, or Stv.