Template talk:The Order

From LGPedia
Jump to: navigation, search

General organization

I moved several items to a Fictional section to help clarify some issues.--modelmotion 14:11, 1 December 2006 (CST)

I like what you're doing here to organize the topic, but frankly, your method of organization is more than a bit opaque to me. I can't figure out why things are organized the way they are on the template, nor do I understand why some things are even on the template. In particular, while I do understand your reason for having a page for the Knights of the Round Table, I think it is such a minor point that the page has no place in defining Bree's religion, and really only serves to inform the meaning of the name and possible associations rather than having relevance in itself. Perhaps I'll revidit this topic later once the subject of the related deletions settles down. I think the concept of this template could be refined a great deal. --Brucker 17:48, 1 December 2006 (CST)

I am always open to new ideas. I think what I created here is much better than nothing. However its only intended to be a starting point. I contribute a lot to this secion so i have a good feel what is on here and why its on here. The Knight issue is just to separate Knights Templar from Knight of the Round Table.....and of course there is likely to be other Knights added as the story develops. There are some issues surrounding the Holy Grail that might ties in the Knights of the Round table but I have enough to deal with at the moment. Yes we could just send people over to Wikipedia but I personally like keeping things in house (especially since it might generate some ad revenue in the future). I also think that Wikipedia can be a bit overwhelming for some users and so having a nice siimple page on LGpedia is useful. Besides, we may get some interesting additions to the page as time goes on.--modelmotion 17:55, 1 December 2006 (CST)

The fictional resources category was recently added to the bottom because of some concerns expressed regarding insults to Thelema. I hope that helps a bit but that why its there.--modelmotion 18:02, 1 December 2006 (CST)

I was considering--along the lines of what I discussed on Tannhaus's talk page--a division of the information into factual, Breeniverse-related, and speculational, but then, a lot of the topics need such breakdowns within the topics themselves, I think. --Brucker 19:37, 1 December 2006 (CST)

I am constantly looking for the best way to arrange this stuff, in part because I need to access these pages frequently and I also have a pretty logical mind. I am still finding pages that I have not yet catalogued so once thats complete we can take a look at all we have and decide if they can be better arranged. There are however always wild cards such as the Deacons (commenters). It looked like they might have gone away with the member directoory but they are back and full of very provocative terminology that opens up a lot of cans of worms. LG is turning out to be more of a mystery than Lost. Some things like Gemma and Jonas are easy to figure out but other things are just unknown. My general approach is to keep an open mind until something is proven or disproven and even then i remain open to the possiblity that we do not know quite as much as we thought we did. Over time, I think thing may get even more complicated so whatever infrastrucure we choose needs to be flexible enough to roll with the punches.--modelmotion 02:44, 2 December 2006 (CST)

Template design

The template itslef is based on this index page which i created and a modificication of the location template that you helped me with. If the template is modified the index page should be modified to reflect the same change. What I want to accomplish was expose users who were searching for one topic to the many other topics that are now available. Any organization scheme that accomplishes that is fine by me. Also I have had a problem adding the template the crowley page and the Thelema page because they both have graphic that have to be dealth with. Perhaps you could help me out with that.--modelmotion 18:00, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Perhaps a change to the template to make it optionally display a picture might be in order, but I don't know. Certainly it would be nice to keep those pictures at the top. Maybe move this box to the bottom like some templates on Wikipedia? --Brucker 19:37, 1 December 2006 (CST)

The list of pages without the template has expanded to include: Aliester Crowley, Thelema, Urim and Thummim and Deacon (individual). I have played around a little with designs but I agree the pictures should stay in place and the template should go below the pictures. Now I just need to figure out how to do that, but lets just say i have been a little distracted by other pressing matters:)--modelmotion 02:44, 2 December 2006 (CST)

Check out this design: Thelema template from Wikipedia Something a bit more like that would be nice, don't you think? --Brucker 14:39, 4 December 2006 (CST)

The case for deletion

This article is simply not a useful navigational tool for the information surrounding Bree's religion. It's not clear to me why a template for this topic is even needed in the first place. Further, the organization of the topics on this template makes no sense to me. If somebody has ideas of how to transform this into something useful, please share. I see little hope.--JayHenry 17:22, 29 January 2007 (CST)

I completely agree. It's not a bad idea to have a template in principle, but this is just not a good application. OwenIsCool 17:31, 29 January 2007 (CST)
Do not want. Delete plz. ~ Jbshryne 00:27, 1 February 2007 (CST)
I got a better idea. rather than outright deleting it, let's remove it from all the pages it's currently shown on and then leave open the possibility that someone can go back some day and make it "spiffier". --Brucker 12:53, 1 February 2007 (CST)
In the spirit of spiffing it up, I pared it down significantly and reorganized it a little. I think it actually doesn't look completely useless anymore! If anyone else agrees, maybe I can spend a little more time making it better-looking and less obtrusive (right now it takes up too much space on the pages it's in). OwenIsCool 15:32, 1 February 2007 (CST)
I should add that I left David Hume on there because he was actually mentioned in one of the videos. I think perhaps Free Will can be merged into the Thelema article when that gets revamped. OwenIsCool 15:34, 1 February 2007 (CST)

That does look a lot better, OIC. But perhaps a bottom-index sorta like:

Would make more sense than a massive sidebar? Because for most of these articles it'd be nice to have a picture or two. Plus we could do something about the kerning of "Bree's religion" if we had more space.--JayHenry 15:37, 1 February 2007 (CST)

Oh wait, I screwed up that link. Check it out at the bottom of the page here.--JayHenry 15:48, 1 February 2007 (CST)
Oops, sry, hadn't seen your msgs. I think a format like the Simpsons one would be perfect. For now at least, I hope my removal of excess links (and inclusion of some I thought might be relevant) at least helped with something.
I think it's a huge improvement. BTW, OIC, I sent you an e-mail.--JayHenry 16:00, 1 February 2007 (CST)


Since I can't save on the template page without causing changes on a bunch of other, I thought I'd start a new template here while it gets figured out. This template would sit on the bottom of the page. This is what I've got so far, feel free to make improvements as seen fit, everyone!

    Topic: {{{name}}}
Bree's Religion
Related pages
Bree's religion | The Order | The Deacons | The Helper | Watcher | Denderah | Commune

Bree's ceremony | Enochian | Bree's injections | Iron pills

Possible influences | Thelema | Free Will | Aleister Crowley | Order of the Golden Dawn | David Hume

I really like this style of template, but simply never looked into how to make them. We could do a lot more with this style of template due to its inherent unobtrusiveness. For instance, a character index template at the bottom of all character pages? --Brucker 16:48, 1 February 2007 (CST)
How do I get the Related videos and Related articles parts from taking up so much space? OwenIsCool 11:51, 3 February 2007 (CST)
We could simply chop out related videos. What does it even mean in this context? Is Motel Pool a Deacon related video? Is Daniel Crossed The Line a Lucy related video? And if it were, wouldn't this information be more clearly explained in the article anyways?--JayHenry 14:32, 3 February 2007 (CST)

You know, I think it's time to give this template a bit of a face lift. I've been tinkering around, I haven't come up with anything great yet, but I will if I think of anything. In the mean time, does anyone have any ideas for a better way to organize it? --Zoey 00:17, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

I think it would help if we could organize the branches/leaders of the Order as we know it so far? Such as - The Elders/Deacons on one level followed by OpAphid, The Watchers, The Shadows, The Helpers, THe Hymn of One on another. You know . . . tree like, in a sense. That's one thought, at least! --Pheon 00:25, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
Maybe we could do some sort of a tree, as Pheon suggested, according to the levels that were given to us in A Solid Lead and other videos. On the top is the Order (full name: the Order of Denderah), and that is the level that the Elders on. Elders have bodyguards called Shadows that are still in the main Order of Denderah, no divisions yet. Some Order families live in communes. Next comes the Hymn of One. It's sort of just the recruiting branch, a "religion" so to speak. The HoO is the community level that the Deacons are at. When a girl is chosen to do the Ceremony (which is on the HoO branch), the Deacons (also on the HoO branch) appoint the girl a Helper (who is also on the HoO branch). Another branch is the OpAPHID branch, whose leader is OpAphid. It is unknown what the OpAPHID branch is for, except for: Operation Analyze Protect Hinder Infiltrate Destroy. A 20-member team who we don't know which branch is in (presumably the Order of Denderah) are the Watchers, who will only use violence if violence is used on them. When they use violence, "they make the Marine Corps look like nothing" according to Alex. That is all the info I could gather on the branches. Thanks!   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 17:25, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
Maybe, something like this.
    Bree's Religion
The Order of Denderah
Elders | Shadows | Communes
The Hymn of One
Deacons | The Ceremony | Helpers
Operation APHID
OpAphid | OpAphid agents | OpAphid enemies
Other Realms of the Order
Watchers | Possible influences of Bree's religion
Or does it look too striped? Let me know.   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 18:03, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

It does look a tad striped. Any chance to make the title bars slimmer?? Anyways, Alex DID say something else about the Watchers -- "They have no knowledge whatsoever of the Ceremony, they've never even heard of it. They're members of the Hymn of One and they don't know anything about the Order, its intentions, its makeup; they don't even know the Order exists. Be that as it may, Watchers will absolutely use violence if violence is used first, and if that's the case, watch out!" Which means that WHILE they are simply 'guardians' of the HoO, with no knowledge of the Ceremony (which seems to be only an Order fabrication), they are willing to kill to protect girls like Bree. (Makes me wonder WHY, if they don't even beleive in the Ceremony!) Anywho, that should help with the rankings and stuff --Pheon 18:11, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

It's just my opinion (no real evidence to prove it), but I've gotten the feeling that OpAPHID and the HoO were basically two equal branches (One recruits, another enforces). If that's the case, is there any chance to make the two sections side-by-side?? --Pheon 18:14, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
I see what you're saying. We could leave the current Order of Denderah section where it is, but then for OpAPHID and the Hymn of One we could sort of align them side by side, because they are the two branches of the top domain (that make sense?). Then we could have the "Other Realms of the Order" thing with Watchers, Possible influences, and perhaps a link to Thelema? It's not too apparent in the series as it was before (after the site redesign, there's no more Darbyite Design, no more references to Aleister Crowley, etc.), but it was still very noteworthy in LG's beginnings.   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 21:13, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

I don't exactly know how to explain it, but I'm not really sure that I like this proposal. The box looks too big and too stripey. And the categorization seems weird... The Ceremony is part of BOTH the HoO and The Order (its not the Order of Dendarah, just The Order, Gemma confirmed). Let's keep thinking about it and see if anyone has any other ideas. Keep brainstorming -- you guys rock! --Zoey 00:03, 20 August 2007 (CDT)

What about...
    Topic: The Order
The Religion
Organizations | The Order | Hymn of One | OpAPHID
People | Aleister Crowley |Elders | Shadows | Deacons | Helpers | Watchers
The Ceremony | Free will | Injections | Enochian | Iron pills
I think it's fixed now. The general idea was having it divided into "Organizations", "People" and "The Ceremony". How does that sound... how does it look? I'd love thoughts and feedback! --Zoey 23:23, 25 August 2007 (CDT)

Or maybe this makes more sense...

    Topic: The Order
The Religion
The Order - Hymn of One - OpAPHID
The Religion | Aleister Crowley | Free will | Enochian | Watchers | Deacons
The Ceremony | Injections | Iron pills | Elders | Shadows | Helpers

Please let me know what you think.. what you like/don't like. Thanks. --Zoey 23:50, 27 August 2007 (CDT)

I like the lower one.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 06:49, 28 August 2007 (CDT)

I'm liking it to... although not sure if it accounts for anything non-religious/non-ceremony... not to mention we aren't really sure if the Deacons are Order/HoO-based.. or neither or both yet really. Would it be better to go with the top one and have the organizations thing laid out with the bottom one? Or stick with the bottom one in its entirety? Thanks. --Zoey 08:33, 31 August 2007 (CDT)

I like the bottom one, though I would prefer "The Order" to be in the center spot (since both the HoO and OpAphid answer to it, as far as we know). Besides that, I like the Top one in that it divides the Ceremony and 'People' . . . so maybe a combo of the two? --Pheon 11:10, 5 September 2007 (CDT)
    Topic: The Order
The Religion
Hymn of One - The Order - OpAPHID
People | Aleister Crowley |Elders | Shadows | Deacons | Helpers | Watchers
The Ceremony | Free will | Injections | Enochian | Iron pills

So is this the consensus? --Zoey 12:15, 9 September 2007 (CDT)

I'm going to go ahead and post it. If there are any objections, please feel free to discuss here further. --Zoey 15:33, 12 September 2007 (CDT)