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Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
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 Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| AutoPilate wrote: | | EternalGoddess wrote: | | But anyways, like my previous question, what made the trial not fair? |
You mean things like:
A complete lack of familiarity with international criminal law on the part of all Iraqi lawyers and judges involved in the trial;
Chaotic and inadequate administration which has given rise to major problems in performing basic administrative tasks necessary for a trial of this magnitude to run fairly;
Such extensive use of anonymous witnesses that the defendants did not get right to contest the evidence against them;
Government actions that undermined the independence and perceived impartiality of the court;
Lapses of judicial demeanor that undermined the apparent impartiality of the presiding judge;
A failure to ensure adequately detailed notice of the charges against the defendants? |
security around the defense lawyers was..horrible (three of them were murdered)
saddam wasn't allowed to testify...
saddam didn't even get to speak to a lawyer until a year after he was captured...
check out the link i posted earlier on in the thread from amnesty international.
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
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Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Kasdeja wrote: | | He should have been tried by a world court...perhaps would have helped with the fairness. |
uhh...he was
internation criminal court...
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kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
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Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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I thought he was brought before a court in Iraq.
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Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Killthesmiley wrote: | | Evan wrote: | | MrsCop wrote: | | I have such a hard time with this issue because I see both sides. When I first watched the vid, I actually did a big ol' GASP thing, like a reflex or something when he dropped. Hard to watch. On the other hand.. let's just say if a man raped my daughter, I'd be hard-pressed to skip the trial thing and would most likely be found out of my head, nails & hammer in hand, building a wooden gallow on the courthouse lawn. |
Agreed. I don't know why because i know how bad he was. But he looks so helpless yet i still am kind of happy that he is dead.... |
its like we feel every emotion just because of this one man...
its REALLY makes you think.
anyways heres another article from amnesty international...it has a bit more information on the msitrial...
http://news.amnesty.org/index/ENGMDE144302006
| Quote: | | The organization, which totally opposes the use of the death penalty, said it was concerned that the Iraqi Appeals Court had failed to address the major flaws during the former dictator's trial before the Supreme Iraqi Criminal Tribunal (SICT) which had rendered it unfair. |
| Quote: | | Amnesty International said it had greatly welcomed the decision to hold Saddam Hussein to account for the crimes committed under his rule but this should have been done through a fair process. "His trial should have been a major contribution towards establishing justice and ensuring truth and accountability for the massive human rights violations perpetrated when he was in power, but his trial was a deeply flawed affair" said Malcolm Smart. "It will be seen by many as nothing more than 'victor's justice' and, sadly, will do nothing to stem the unrelenting tide of political killings." |
| Quote: | | The trial before the SICT failed to satisfy international fair trial standards. Political interference undermined the independence and impartiality of the court, causing the first presiding judge to resign and blocking the appointment of another, and the court failed to take adequate measures to ensure the protection of witnesses and defence lawyers, three of whom were assassinated during the course of the trial. Saddam Hussein was also denied access to legal counsel for the first year after his arrest, and complaints by his lawyers throughout the trial relating to the proceedings do not appear to have been adequately answered by the tribunal. The appeal process was obviously conducted in haste and failed to rectify any of the flaws of the first trial. |
this is the kicker......he's still on trial from the actual genocide....
| Quote: | At the time of his execution, Saddam Hussein was also standing trial before the SICT, together with six others, on separate charges arising from the so-called Anfal campaign, when thousands of people belonging to Iraq's Kurdish minority were subject to mass killings, torture and other gross abuses in 1988. It is expected that this trial will now continue against the other accused. The execution of Saddam Hussein is a major blow to the process of establishing the truth of what happened under his rule. and as such another squandered opportunity for Iraqis to find out about and come to terms with the crimes of the past.
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and
| Quote: | Criticism of court
The quality of justice in the case has however been questioned by some outside bodies.
Malcolm Smart, Director of the Middle East and North Africa for Amnesty International said: "Amnesty opposes the death penalty in all circumstances and we deplore the death penalty in this case.
"It is because we consider that the trial was flawed in serious ways that it is more concerning that the death penalty should be imposed."
He listed his group's concerns about the trials.
"The independence and impartiality of the court was impugned. There was political interference. The first judge resigned, the second was barred for being a former member of the Baath party, the only political entity at the time, and the third judge had relatives who were killed in Halabje [where Kurds were gassed by Saddam Hussein's forces].
The security of the court was also impossible to keep. Three defence lawyers were murdered. Saddam himself had no access to legal advice for a year. There were also problems with the defence's ability to function." |
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
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Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Kasdeja wrote: | | I thought he was brought before a court in Iraq. |
nope international court held in iraq.
edit::
wait no...he's still in trial in front of that court...
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
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EternalGoddess
Devoted Fan
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 564
Location: In the back of your closet
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Killthesmiley wrote: | | AutoPilate wrote: | | EternalGoddess wrote: | | But anyways, like my previous question, what made the trial not fair? |
You mean things like:
A complete lack of familiarity with international criminal law on the part of all Iraqi lawyers and judges involved in the trial;
Chaotic and inadequate administration which has given rise to major problems in performing basic administrative tasks necessary for a trial of this magnitude to run fairly;
Such extensive use of anonymous witnesses that the defendants did not get right to contest the evidence against them;
Government actions that undermined the independence and perceived impartiality of the court;
Lapses of judicial demeanor that undermined the apparent impartiality of the presiding judge;
A failure to ensure adequately detailed notice of the charges against the defendants? |
security around the defense lawyers was..horrible (three of them were murdered)
saddam wasn't allowed to testify...
saddam didn't even get to speak to a lawyer until a year after he was captured...
check out the link i posted earlier on in the thread from amnesty international. |
Wow, that's wrong. He should have been given a chance to defend himself.
_________________
The Truth: There is always two sides to every story.
The Task: Listening to those stories. |
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Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| EternalGoddess wrote: | | Killthesmiley wrote: | | AutoPilate wrote: | | EternalGoddess wrote: | | But anyways, like my previous question, what made the trial not fair? |
You mean things like:
A complete lack of familiarity with international criminal law on the part of all Iraqi lawyers and judges involved in the trial;
Chaotic and inadequate administration which has given rise to major problems in performing basic administrative tasks necessary for a trial of this magnitude to run fairly;
Such extensive use of anonymous witnesses that the defendants did not get right to contest the evidence against them;
Government actions that undermined the independence and perceived impartiality of the court;
Lapses of judicial demeanor that undermined the apparent impartiality of the presiding judge;
A failure to ensure adequately detailed notice of the charges against the defendants? |
security around the defense lawyers was..horrible (three of them were murdered)
saddam wasn't allowed to testify...
saddam didn't even get to speak to a lawyer until a year after he was captured...
check out the link i posted earlier on in the thread from amnesty international. |
Wow, that's wrong. He should have been given a chance to defend himself. |
also, from what i'm hearing now...everyone that was involved in the excusion and the trial we shietes (is that the right spelling)...which is the culture Saddam tried to exterminate.
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
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Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Killthesmiley wrote: | | Kasdeja wrote: | | I thought he was brought before a court in Iraq. |
nope international court held in iraq.
edit::
wait no...he's still in trial in front of that court... |
In the beginning, they were talking about having his trial out of Iraq...that's what I meant. I haven't kept up as much on his trial because it seemed like such a circus. He shouldn't have been tried in Iraq.
_________________
You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while.
Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store. |
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Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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completely OT:
K....every time i see your avvie i keep thinking about the episode where donna gets stoned with them and she's like "My hands are huge. I AM THE CHAMPION." and eric is like "yea sure donna..." and then POW right in the jaw!
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
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Kasdeja
Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 7754
Location: Back...and to the left.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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_________________
You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while.
Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store. |
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EternalGoddess
Devoted Fan
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 564
Location: In the back of your closet
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Kasdeja wrote: | |
Lol
_________________
The Truth: There is always two sides to every story.
The Task: Listening to those stories. |
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spaciegirlreturn
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 2767
Location: Jupiter
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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can't..read..thread...any..more...will...explode..
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Me and my key...same as it ever was. |
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Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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THREAD JACK
I AM THE CHAMPION
POW
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
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