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Lurker
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject:

immortal1 wrote:

If done correctly they could have a resolution with the Order storyline but leave it open ended. Say the ceremony can only happen during the fall or spring equinox. The spring equinox comes and somehow they find a way to get Bree out of it again. The Order backs off their pursuit and becomes dormant. Maybe they plant some false info that now that the spring equinox is passed she is no longer elligible. They then have 6 months to tell a new story, perhaps a rite of passage type story where Bree learns to become comfortable in her own skin after learning what she did about who she really is. Obviously the opportunity to be more lighthearted will be there. When the fall equinox approaches, the Order could reappear.

I have to ask how that would in any way be a good thing. I also have to ask how it would in any way be a resolution. A resolution in this case can't be open ended or it's not a resolution. It would essentially be hitting the reset button on what's come before, only Bree still couldn't go back to her old life, and the same stuff would start happening again.

It would basically be six pointless months of episodes about playing foosball, playing poker with Random Girl, Bree being a bitch to Daniel every day, and Jonas thinking up new nicknames for Daniel (not that his nicknames for Daniel aren't funny).

All that would matter then is "What are they going to do about the Order when they show up again?" and all most any of us would ever be asking is "How can they sit around doing nothing when this isn't over yet?"

Seriously, that would be the most awful thing that could possibly happen, and I guarantee you a lot of us would walk away from the series for good at that point. I would be one of the very first.

JustAnotherLonelyGirl. wrote:

Well, considering Bree was raised for the ceremony, I have a feeling the Order is going to be the main part of the series. I like it this way though. Otherwise we'd be watching "boy problems" and "girl problems" over and over with a little bit of "date with p. monkey" and "my parents suck" sprinkled in. I don't need to watch the life of my entire high school on a screen, thanks.

Agreed. Even those of us whose high school life was inferior to all that wouldn't want to watch that stuff again when the situation with the Order isn't resolved. It's not realistic and it's not what most of us are interested in seeing.

I know some people feel like it's "little moments" that make this series and that they're all it's supposed to be about, but that can't carry the story that's been created to resolution. It just can't. They're not compatible concepts.

For that matter, it's hardly like Bree's life is a typical one (or ever has been), so any suggestion that the series is about the simple moments that make up life leaves me going "Whaaaa" everytime.

jennabellie
Suspiciously Absent

Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 4

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject:

Beckers wrote:

ti was pretty obvious when the amount of viewers went up so fast

yeah the amount of users went up because they rode the "user train" like so many other popular youtubers. don't get me wrong, i'm glad they did. it was smart. i need my lonelygirl fix!

the one thing that struck me as her possibly being fake before she was "exposed" was how she didn't mention other youtubers or anything with the site. that was just odd to me. but it all makes sense now!

immortal1
Enthusiastic Fan

Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 456

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject:

Lurker wrote:

I'll tell you what I was thinking, we are what? 8 months into this thing? how long could they feasibly continue on with the Order storyline without changing the series into something so dark that it alienates a sizeable number of fans who can't wait for PMonkey to make his next appearance? Afterall this topic is about the series just being about the Order. I'm not sure why you have a problem with the term open ended resolution- it simply means as far as anyone knows the immediate threat is nullified. It's in no way a reset button. She lost her Dad and her whole history was a lie it would make no sense to see the happy go lucky Bree. In fact it would take a while for her to find her light again. I think it would be interesting to watch her on a journey to find her place in the world again. And when the Order resurfaces she would be a much stronger person for it.

Lurker wrote:

All that would matter then is "What are they going to do about the Order when they show up again?" and all most any of us would ever be asking is "How can they sit around doing nothing when this isn't over yet?"

The way I laid the scenario out Bree would be mislead into thinking the Order was no longer after her so it would be pefectly logical for her to move on.

Lurker wrote:

Seriously, that would be the most awful thing that could possibly happen, and I guarantee you a lot of us would walk away from the series for good at that point. I would be one of the very first.

As sure as you would walk away, I'm sure there is group of fans that would walk away if the light hearted Bree doesn't return. It's about balance and all I was merely trying to do is suggest one way it might be achieved.

PinkoLady
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Looking for Tachyon...

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject:

I think the number of people drawn in by excitement and suspense out weigh those drawn in by the light-hearted and mundane. And while many people seem to want LG15 to be some high school drama in the form of a blog, frankly, there's also a crowd that just wants to see a young girl [the character] hopping around in front of a camera looking cute and being bubbly, and it's a little voyeuristic. There's plenty of that already on youtube, and it's lame. This darker side of lonelygirl with an original and interesting storyline seems far better an option for the creators to go with than the other two. Last edited by PinkoLady on Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

PinkoLady
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Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Looking for Tachyon...

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject:

Really, those of you who want lighthearted videos right now-- don't ever direct a movie. All the ominous forshadowing had to lead to this point in the story-- and I think the creators have done a great job of slipping in a weird sort of humor into it (i.e. Miss Me? It was hilarious. Spin art. SPIN ART.)

spaciegirlreturn
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Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I agree. I was sort of skeeved out, but I was laughing at the same time. Down with prooving science wrong. I'd much rather watch someone being eaten or burned alive. Is that sooo wrong? _________________ Me and my key...same as it ever was.

Lurker
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Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject:

immortal1 wrote:

I know there's a significant number of people who miss those "cutesie" videos, but the story really did evolve beyond that a long time ago, and I think it would only hurt it if they tried to regress to that. The story's grown up and the audience needs to look at it realistically. Those times that Bree continued behaving like a spoiled child that ignored what was going on seemed like highly unrealistic behavior to most everyone, and was what began her decline in popularity. Many of us hate her now.

It started with how callous she was about her parents being kidnapped. All she could do was play I Spy, pretend her stuffed toys were alive, and say that life on the road was "boorrriiing" - as though it was Daniel's job to entertain her while she kept all her precious secrets that might have helped them locate her parents or better their situation. Daniel's response to her behavior was, of course, realistic (he was pissed), and I think - or, rather, hope - that was the whole point.

The Creators may have been trying to use that to say "This isn't a time for Bree to be doing installments of Proving Science Wrong" to those people who said "We need more Owen!" or "Lucy better not mess with P. Monkey!" If so, they essentially had to make Bree so dislikable as to make any mention of the plush toys a cause for wanting to strangle the life out of her - even for the people who liked the toys before.

That's not to say that none of it could have been to appeal to those fans who actually wanted more of the cutesie stuff. I actually think Miles and the other guys producing this didn't realize early on how mature the tastes of a lot of the show's viewers were. I daresay the majority who bother to comment on the forum are in their late teens or older. Many of us are in college, working, married, or have children of our own.

But I think they caught on and, as time passed, were trying to offer that little bit of fanservice even as they tried to convince everyone who wasn't already onboard that the story needed to grow up, and so did viewer expectations.

Anyway, to try to answer your question, I can't tell you how long they could expect to reasonably continue this without losing some viewers who just want Bree to bake cookies and slice up fish with rocks, but I can tell you that a comedy film isn't going to attract people who refuse to watch anything but horror, supsense won't attract those who demand only comedy, action probably isn't going to do anything for the documentary-only people, and phony science experiments with an occasional lip-synching music video aren't going to do anything for people who want to 1) see what can be achieved in storytelling with this medium or 2) see all the foreshadowing actually amount to a mature story worthy of the attention it's been given and the foreshadowing the Creators have included.

Just as it's not possible to make something fall into every genre, it's not possible to make something appeal to the tastes of every group. Sure there's some movies that manage to strike a balance of appeal to younger and older audiences (like Shrek), but if the choice is "Proving Science Wrooooong" or "We have Daniel," it won't happen here.

You have to decide (or, preferably, know from the beginning) what you want a story to be, what you want it to say, and what you have to do with it to get it there - and then do it. If they tried appealing to everyone, they'd alienate everyone. And I think they know that, but have been concerned about what you bring up, leading them to try too hard to please everyone a few times for fear of anyone complaining. It can't work. You really have to decide who your audience is and work with that.

Anyway, to be fair, for those who want only cutesie videos, there's plenty of that on YouTube already, and it would be a total waste of the opportunity the Creators have here (to explore what this medium can achieve with storytelling) if they caved to a few desires for generic, directionless entertainment that lacked a narrative or an apparent intention to say something more than "Look how high I can go on my trampoline as I try to prove gravity wrooooong."

immortal1 wrote:

Afterall this topic is about losing viewers. I'm not sure why you have a problem with the term open ended resolution- it simply means as far as anyone knows the immediate threat is nullified. It's in no way a reset button. She lost her Dad and her whole history was a lie it would make no sense to see the happy go lucky Bree. In fact it would take a while for her to find her light again. I think it would be interesting to watch her on a journey to find her place in the world again. And when the Order resurfaces she would be a much stronger person for it.

immortal1 wrote:

The way I laid the scenario out Bree would be mislead into thinking the Order was no longer after her so it would be pefectly logical for her to move on.

Well, since the notion that she and her friends will ever be left alone until their opponents are incarcerated or in the ground isn't something that can be entertained, the absolute only way I can see what you suggest working is if:

A. Lucy, the Deacons, her mom, and OpAphid all died, but other members of the Order from other countries were still around and wanted to come after her later, or

B. Lucy, the Deacons, her mom, and OpAphid all appeared to die, but actually survived.

Really, though, since this is the only conceivable way, why not just let it end after that (with an appropriate epilogue of a few weeks as Bree tries to make a decent life for herself)? Why ever have the Order show up again? LG15 is clearly not the be all, end all objective for any of the people producing this, and it would be foolish of them to try to carry it for years while its popularity inevitably diminished. Within the first two years of this thing is when they need to capitalize on it.

The actors have good things awaiting them if they don't wait too long (seriously, they could go sign for big contracts today just because of the selling power of their familiarity alone), and I believe the guys behind the camera do too. Maybe they won't jump straight into Hollywood directing (though I think they could make it), but at the very least they'll have companies wanting to work with them on how to market their own stuff. The idea behind LG15 could have never worked had these guys not distributed it right.

immortal1 wrote:

As sure as you would walk away, I'm sure there is group of fans that would walk away if the light hearted Bree doesn't return.

Probably. But that's true of every tv show, movie, book, or whatever. It's just not for everyone. In this case, I like to think the Creators realize they'd be making the best of this by targeting the show toward the group that wants to see Bree develop into a well-adjusted individual with a positive future after reducing her enemies to dust in the wind - and then send the thing off with dignity.

Whatever may happen, I think it's more important - for both the integrity of LG15 and the careers of all the people involved - that the producers make the best of their opportunity by continuing with a cohesive narrative that has a point, all the while showing off the potential video blogging has as a genuine entertainment medium right alongside film and television. That seems so much better than worrying about emulating what hundreds of people already do on YouTube, except with underpaid actors and a non-profitable production.

immortal1 wrote:

It's about balance and all I was merely trying to do is suggest one way it might be achieved.

In my mind, there's nothing inherently wrong with the suggestion other than the idea that LG15 should continue after Bree becomes well-adjusted and finds her place in the world. Really, what more could it say after that point that would warrant beating a dead horse? Stories that matter end after all.

JustAnotherLonelyGirl.
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Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 2094
Location: Boston

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:41 pm Post subject:

PinkoLady wrote:

Really, those of you who want lighthearted videos right now-- don't ever direct a movie.

All the ominous forshadowing had to lead to this point in the story-- and I think the creators have done a great job of slipping in a weird sort of humor into it (i.e. Miss Me? It was hilarious. Spin art. SPIN ART.)

Miss Me? was hysterical. I'd rather watch DannyB talk gangsta over and over than Bree tell stories about how her mom and dad met.
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wh_pirate
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Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 295
Location: Arizona

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject:

spaciegirlreturn wrote:

Yeah, I agree. I was sort of skeeved out, but I was laughing at the same time. Down with prooving science wrong.

I'd much rather watch someone being eaten or burned alive. Is that sooo wrong?

Not in my book it ain't.

Hey we are having that Body Worlds 3 at the Science Center here in town. Wanna go? Very Happy

immortal1
Enthusiastic Fan

Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 456

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:57 am Post subject:

Lurker wrote:

A big problem I have with this thread is the notion that it has to be either cutesy teen problem vids or dark cloak and dagger vids. The truth is either would one dimensional. If you look at Buffy or Smallville, the shows are set up in away that the hero fights evil but also has a life outside that where they are typical teens. Right now lg15 is not set up that way- but could it? I agree they have not found the appropriate balance but that is because they have forced those cutesy vids in.

You makes assertions like "most of us hate her" and "how mature the tastes of a lot of the show's viewers were." As well as that her acting like a spoiled child has lead to a decline in popularity. I'm not sure what you based that on. We don't have demographics, all we really have is view numbers. I don't think those numbers suggest a decline in popularity, even if there was one I could just as easily assert if was due to the increase in the presence of OpAphid.

As for the rest, I don't think you get what I'm trying to say. It's quite simply this, I believe with good storytelling no part of the audience has to be left behind and to do so would not hurt the integrity of what they are trying to do in this medium.

I laid out a scenario in which that could logically take place, that being that the ceremony need to take place during a specific time. I suggested the equinox but it could easily be astrologically related differenty somehow. If that time passes and Bree can avoid the ceremony it obviously is not urgent for the Order to pursue her. The Order would then provide some false information to her which would lead her to believe that she is no longer of value to them. "You know what Bree? Your Mom had a change of heart, she wants you to have a normal life" or "You're off the hook, you're too old" or "you're off the hook, you broke your purity bond." It would make sense for them to do this because a) she would be easier to keep track of out in the open versus on the run and b) it would lull her into a false sense of security c) it would give them the element of surprise when the time is right to conduct the next ceremony. No one has to die or be incarcerated.

During this time we watch her on a journey to find her place in the world and find her light again. This experience will make her stronger the next time the Order comes looking for her. In my opinion Bree has had very little character growth and for this to be a story that matters, she needs to take that journey. Character growth does not mean losing your imagination or sense of fun. Dropping the stuffed animals is not an indication of character growth. I think people take them as literal symbols of adolescence. I'm not saying she should continue to talk to them but I think they could evolve into representing something else to her. They could come to symbolize the life she used to have before the Order, the life she wants to get back to. At the end of this I don't want to see her pack PMonkey and Owen away in a box, I want to see her retire them onto a shelf in her room.

Lurker wrote:

In this case, I like to think the Creators realize they'd be making the best of this by targeting the show toward the group that wants to see Bree develop into a well-adjusted individual with a positive future after reducing her enemies to dust in the wind - and then send the thing off with dignity.

I think every fan wants some form of this. Where I differ is that I don't believe reducing her enemies to dust will make her into the well-adjusted individual we all want to see her become. Maybe I am wrong, maybe this is a textbook hero's journey. Maybe this exchange will lead her into the descent into the underworld. It could be, but I don't see it yet. I'd love to be wrong.

But you know what really determines where this story goes? How long they've managed to tie up Jessica Rose for.

Lurker
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:56 am Post subject:

immortal1 wrote:

I totally agree with you that those two shows have struck the balance really well, but they had a "monster of the week" formula that LG15 doesn't and couldn't have. And, focusing on Buffy, when there was a single season-long enemy who would have to be dealt with in order for there to be an ordinary life for everyone again, their life outside that didn't get to go on (especially in the last season).

The Order is that kind of enemy. I just don't think there's room for even thinking about "My life after all this" for Bree until the Order is really out of the picture.

immortal1 wrote:

You makes assertions like "most of us hate her" and "how mature the tastes of a lot of the show's viewers were." As well as that her acting like a spoiled child has lead to a decline in popularity. I'm not sure what you based that on. We don't have demographics, all we really have is view numbers. I don't think those numbers suggest a decline in popularity, even if there was one I could just as easily assert if was due to the increase in the presence of OpAphid.

I didn't say a decline in the show's popularity or its view numbers. I said a decline in Bree's own popularity. Just looking at the comments she's gotten over the last few months (assuming the few hundred people who comment on the forum and in comment sections on the videos are a reasonable representative sample), it seems clear that she doesn't have the favor with the audience she once had.

immortal1 wrote:

As for the rest, I don't think you get what I'm trying to say. It's quite simply this, I believe with good storytelling no part of the audience has to be left behind and to do so would not hurt the integrity of what they are trying to do in this medium.

I'm going to have to disagree. I think it's extremely rare for someone to even find a story that can appeal to people across several genres, mustless something that can please everyone. It's not easily done, even among people who are good storytellers. This is why there's a genre market to begin with, and part of the reason those in the media increasingly attempt to personalize everything from news coverage to how they advertise products (and also why issues of Time magazine and Newsweek have shrunk).

immortal1 wrote:

I laid out a scenario in which that could logically take place, that being that the ceremony need to take place during a specific time. I suggested the equinox but it could easily be astrologically related differenty somehow. If that time passes and Bree can avoid the ceremony it obviously is not urgent for the Order to pursue her. The Order would then provide some false information to her which would lead her to believe that she is no longer of value to them. "You know what Bree? Your Mom had a change of heart, she wants you to have a normal life" or "You're off the hook, you're too old" or "you're off the hook, you broke your purity bond." It would make sense for them to do this because a) she would be easier to keep track of out in the open versus on the run and b) it would lull her into a false sense of security c) it would give them the element of surprise when the time is right to conduct the next ceremony. No one has to die or be incarcerated.

I disagree that this is conceptually a scenario in which Bree could logically move on. As I said before, the Order's killed for less than what Bree and her friends know. For them to even consider that they might be left alone as long as these people are free to do what they want would be naive. Even if they're told that, the logical thing for them to do would be to look for a way to kill OpAphid and the rest.

I love peace as much as the next person, but I'm saying that, logically, if Bree and her friends want a life free of the Order, they will have to seek out the means to kill these people. The most logical response to the Order saying "You're off the hook" would be "Great. We've got a little time to freely plan a way to get rid of them."

immortal1 wrote:

During this time we watch her on a journey to find her place in the world and find her light again. This experience will make her stronger the next time the Order comes looking for her.

immortal1 wrote:

But you know what really determines where this story goes? How long they've managed to tie up Jessica Rose for.

That was exactly my point in saying that when they resolve this why not leave it resolved? I'm sure none of these people want to be doing LG15 forever, so they should put it to rest when it reaches a satisfying break-off point and could end with dignity.

immortal1 wrote:

I think every fan wants some form of this. Where I differ is that I don't believe reducing her enemies to dust will make her into the well-adjusted individual we all want to see her become.

That's not what I suggested. What I suggested is that her enemies being gone (and I mean the dead kind of gone) will leave her free to develop. Until that happens, she's not going to be free to, and if she's learned anything from all this so far, it should be that.

Last edited by Lurker on Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

spaciegirlreturn
The Order of Denderah

Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 2767
Location: Jupiter

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:20 am Post subject:

wh_pirate wrote:

Hey we are having that Body Worlds 3 at the Science Center here in town. Wanna go? Very Happy

What is that?
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girlAnachronism
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Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 483

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:30 am Post subject:

spaciegirlreturn wrote:

wh_pirate wrote:

Hey we are having that Body Worlds 3 at the Science Center here in town. Wanna go? Very Happy

What is that?

I saw it, it was awesome. You get to see dead bodies opened up and how the muscles/nerves/bloodveins connect.

Sami
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:32 am Post subject:

I miss 'proving science wrong' _________________ "Have you uff da'd today?" - Broken Kid

nobackspacebutton
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Posts: 5301
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:34 am Post subject:

girlAnachronism wrote:

spaciegirlreturn wrote:

wh_pirate wrote:

Hey we are having that Body Worlds 3 at the Science Center here in town. Wanna go? Very Happy

What is that?

I saw it, it was awesome. You get to see dead bodies opened up and how the muscles/nerves/bloodveins connect.

omdude! That sounds awesome!
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