Lonelygirl15

xyzzy · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:03 am Post subject:

Much can probably be said about the inclusion of a reference to Magritte's famous self-referential pipe series in an ARG.

I have included below some comments on Hofstadter's views of these works which I discovered when reading "Godel, Escher, Bach an Eternal Golden Braid" many years ago.

"Could it be that we can know something about this larger system, such as that it must be more complex than our own world? These are the types of philosophical questions that reading GEB evoked, and they are reflected in some of Magritte's pipe series that Hofstadter includes—for example, a painting of a pipe with the caption "Ceci n'est pas un pipe," i.e. "This is not a pipe." At first we may think, 'of course it's a pipe,' until we realize that what Magritte means is that it is really just a painting. Another painting features a room with the painting of the first pipe on an easel and a "real" pipe floating above it—now there are three layers of "reality" evident: our world, the world of the painting, and the world of the painting within the painting. It forces the viewer to confront the subjective nature of reality—do we necessarily exist in the 'highest' layer?"
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/complexity/course/emergence06/bookreviews/jrohwer.html

"Hofstadter (1980, Chapter XX Strange Loops, Or Tangled Hierarchies) Of all these artists, Magritte was the most conscious of the symbol-object mystery (which I see as a deep extension of the use-mention distinction). (p.700) ... Magritte's series of pipe paintings is fascinating and perplexing. (p.701) ... The only way not to get sucked in is to see both pipes merely as colored smudges on a surface a few inches in front of your nose. Then, and only then, do you appreciate the full meaning of the written message "Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - but ironically, at the very instant everything turns into smudges, the writng too turns to smudges, thereby losing its meaning! In other words, at that instant, the verbal message of the painting self-destructs in a most Godelian way. (p.701) "
http://homepages.which.net/~gk.sherman/baaaaabk.htm

"Magritte was telling the viewer that the lithographed print of a pipe is not actually a real pipe; hence the consideration of not what youíre looking at within the context of the frame, but what the object really is, a lithographed print!"
http://web.cfa.arizona.edu/art432a/fall2003/work.html
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-- -.-- ... - . .-. .. -- · Casual Observer Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 68

wow, that's complex
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covedweller · Guest

When a Moderator ultimately moves or deletes this thread for clearly being in the WRONG CATEGORY:

Can you post just how many sockpuppets participated in this 7 page discussion (consisting almost entirely of users to join in the last 24 hours) all about a clear FAN FICTION series that has NOTHING to do with LG15's creators?

I admire the effort they put into SPAMMING the Plot Discussion forum and all, but really...I'll put $1.00 (USD) that it's from 2 or 3 IP addresses, tops.

Either that, or the Short Bus just pulled up to the forums...

toadlguy · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:23 am Post subject:

covedweller · Guest

xyzzy · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:38 am Post subject:

toadlguy · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:38 am Post subject:

-- -.-- ... - . .-. .. -- · Casual Observer Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 68

what tells us this is fanfiction? I started the post, I admit that. But I think it's part of the LG15 thing. I've seen more reason to think that than to think it's fanfic.
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Boondongle · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:13 am Post subject:

I am waiting to be contacted. ON the main page it says " You can always log in through the email link that we sent to our families. "

I asked Miss Kelly to send me the link. I'm her star pupil you know Laughing

Nora Volkova · Enthusiastic Fan Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 332

Moving as requested -- this will cross over from being modded by Hye/Slacker/me/Senna into being modded by tw/Raven/Hodabes.

If any evidence pops up that this is a canon project, we'll probably move it back.

Please keep your safety restraints connected and keep your arms and legs inside the vehicle until it comes to a complete stop in the terminal. Thank you for riding the lonelygirl15 Monorail.

Thank you again. Enjoy your stay!
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-- -.-- ... - . .-. .. -- · Casual Observer Joined: 04 Oct 2006 Posts: 68

well, hopefully it will be proven to be part of the actual LG15 and moved back. If it's not proven to be part of the actual LG15 series then keep it - I don't want any part of it. that would suck.
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xenocide · Suspiciously Absent Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 25

Personally, I would really like to see this turn out to be canon. If it's not, I'll still follow it though - whoever made this, if it IS fanfic, put a LOT of time and effort into it, and I'm interested in seeing what direction they plan on taking with it.
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Mirage · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:36 am Post subject:

Wow! So much has happened since I last posted...so much to catch up on, as usual.

I'm out, I need to go hurry my sockpuppet self onto the shortbus. Cheers!

exastra · Casual Observer Joined: 27 Sep 2006 Posts: 36

assuming hsa is associated with LG15, i get the impression of an impending apocalypse and Revelations. there is a sense of millennialism. free will vs determinism. God and the devil. collapse or destruction of society. waiting and acting. paradoxes.
look at the literature selections. what themes and imagery are present?

also, hsa seems to show the signs of a cult. brainwashing, isolationism, purity, special education, privacy and secrecy, recruiting, puritanical, segregation from the outside world and dustrust of outsiders, studying and instilling a particular philosophy and morality (in this case, secular/ Western civilization), don't think about or focus on anything but what hsa tells them, a strong sense of "family".

all the kids seems to be about the same age: impressionable/ pliable teens. read Lyn's blog. and why are peers only allowed to interact online, and not meet in person?
hsa is waiting... expectantly, fecklessly, idlely? for us? or some event?

in their videos, they focus on the moon. who else focuses on the moon? Pagans follow the cycles of the moon. the moon can also symbolize things.
a transition from light to dark? moon in front of sun... eclypse?