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Lonelygirl15 Forum to post messages about Bree and Danielbeast
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What to do with Jules? |
Keep her! She's fresh-faced and awesome. |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
Dead end. She's not the girl and fades out of the series. |
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44% |
[ 26 ] |
DEAD end. The Order kills her off, satisfying fans, yet making us fear for LG15's life. |
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53% |
[ 31 ] |
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Total Votes : 58 |
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rupaZer0 Lonely Fan
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 205 Location: Rotherham, UK
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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It really does take a lot of skill to be honest without hurting people. There's been books written about it. On top of that, cruel humour has been de rigeur for at least ten years now, probably more - and while it's possible to be funny without being cruel, we don't get much exposure to this kind of humour. Even people with the best of intentions, who try their hardest day in day out to make this world a little more positive, can still get it wrong and hurt someone's feelings. I don't really blame people who stop trying not to hurt people and just let rip with cruelty. There are times when things have to be said, and if something's worth doing, it's worth doing badly.
Having said that, I disagree with the cruelty itself, and I have always been very appreciative of the mods efforts to keep a lid on cruel communication on this forum. And I think that in most situations, mean things simply shouldn't be said. I want to thank people for their comments against cruelty, particularly BK, who seems to manage to express everything in a non-judgemental way. It's amazing how being in a position of moral superiority can sometimes cause us to make value judgements and accusations, but BK seems to be immune. _________________ Cut scene to BDJ in a lubed-up cuddlefest. |
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Broken Kid Site Admin
Joined: 14 Sep 2006 Posts: 5276
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: |
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rupaZer0 wrote: | I want to thank people for their comments against cruelty, particularly BK, who seems to manage to express everything in a non-judgemental way. It's amazing how being in a position of moral superiority can sometimes cause us to make value judgements and accusations, but BK seems to be immune. |
I wish I was, but by no means... Honestly, sometimes it comes down to thinking two or three times before writing what you think of writing. That's the benefit of an online forum rather than an in-person one, where there typically isn't time to think things through first. But if I think about what I want to post, I can usually find a way to express what I want to say and make my point in a productive way. _________________ President of the Owen Fan Club |
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Kasdeja Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 7754 Location: Back...and to the left.
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:46 am Post subject: |
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I know BK didn't mean it...but the way some people are posting it's like if you don't like something you are being cruel for simply being honest. Can we get away from those types of statements? Because I believe in being honest first and foremost...and I try to be fair and balanced. Ihave given constructive criticism for years and when I say someone really needs to polish up on something like acting skills, it's coming from an actress who has been acting since she was 12 and has directed plays....so I know what it is to be in the position of this young actress...and it's a bit condescending when people tell you you don't know what you are talking about and that you are being cruel when in reality you are being much nicer and trying to HELP the person more than any director I have come into contact with would have responded. Hope this post made sense... _________________
You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while.
Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store. |
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khjq Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 442 Location: inside your head
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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The truth is that acting clearly isn't for her, IMO she wasn't even acting, she was either saying her lines straight from her memory or reading off cue cards. She's just a bad actress plain and simple. Thats the truth without being harsh and cruel.
Seriously can someone tell me why there is so many emo people on these forums?
If u can't take criticism, wether it be constructive or "cruel" then don't expose ur goddamn self to the world, cuz the world is a big cruel place, get over it. _________________ WHY AM I STILL HERE?!?!? |
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Susan Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 402 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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khjq wrote: | If u can't take criticism, wether it be constructive or "cruel" then don't expose ur goddamn self to the world, cuz the world is a big cruel place, get over it. | You sound like you're twelve, honey. The whole point of humans taking such a major percentage of their life to mature is that we have to learn to control our baser instincts. Just because you can be cruel--just because others are being cruel to us--doesn't make it right or helpful to be cruel back. Don't live up to those around you. Find an ideal and aspire to it. |
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Kasdeja Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 7754 Location: Back...and to the left.
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Thing is...what he said about the actress wasn't cruel. I've seen the cruel comments...and there was no question on those. Now it's turning into "if you don't like something and are honest or give honest feedback, you are cruel. say you like it or say nothing at all." _________________
You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while.
Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store. |
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Ziola The Order of Denderah
Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 5774
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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*has been saying nothing at all for that very reason* |
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Kasdeja Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 7754 Location: Back...and to the left.
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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What's cruel is letting someone waltz through life thinking they are good at something, knowing one day they will be knocked down and wonder why nobody ever gave them honest feedback. _________________
You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while.
Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store. |
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Susan Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 402 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry for the flame. I just got poked in one of my (numerous) buttons. I've seen the most cruel of statements couched in the kind of rhetoric that starts with, "I'm sorry but..." The words "she can't act" aren't constructive criticism, and "She sucks" helps no one.
I'm a writer, and my biggest complaint is the number of people who tell me, "This is good." and think it is constructive. Constructive means you show them HOW it is good or HOW it is bad. You tell them HOW you felt when you read something. When I present something to the public I don't want people to shut up if they hated it, but I also don't want 10 different kinds of invectives in place of an "I found it slow in the beginning." or "The main character just wasn't believable."
People have a right to know how well their work is being received, but that shouldn't bleed over into character assassination or stony silence. |
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Broken Kid Site Admin
Joined: 14 Sep 2006 Posts: 5276
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Kasdeja wrote: | I know BK didn't mean it...but the way some people are posting it's like if you don't like something you are being cruel for simply being honest. Can we get away from those types of statements? Because I believe in being honest first and foremost...and I try to be fair and balanced. |
Back at the beginning of this discussion, I said a few times that we're not trying to stifle anyone's opinion. You can absolutely state your opinion and you can be honest. The point is to do it in a respectful manner.
As you pointed out, you can say that a person's acting skills need work. You can say that a person needs to work on their script or their presentation. But saying "you suck" or "give it up" or "she's unwatchable" (I'm not saying you, Kas, said this) is ultimately unproductive.
I think the point was really just to be respectful without stifling anyone's point of view! _________________ President of the Owen Fan Club |
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Kasdeja Hymn of One
Joined: 15 Sep 2006 Posts: 7754 Location: Back...and to the left.
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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Which is why one of myfirst comments when Jules was introduced to us was that she needs to work on her languages and she should consider getting an acting coach. I just don't like that so many people seem to be roundabout saying that those of us that don't like this character should just be quiet. I have no intention to be cruel, but as an actress/director to a budding actress...I feel it irresponsible to merely stroke her ego and set her up to fail. But, I think you get my drift. _________________
You cannot make another post so soon after your last; please try again in a short while.
Bagged, tagged, sold to the butcher at the store. |
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Lurker Guest
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Susan wrote: | khjq wrote: | If u can't take criticism, wether it be constructive or "cruel" then don't expose ur goddamn self to the world, cuz the world is a big cruel place, get over it. | You sound like you're twelve, honey. The whole point of humans taking such a major percentage of their life to mature is that we have to learn to control our baser instincts. Just because you can be cruel--just because others are being cruel to us--doesn't make it right or helpful to be cruel back. Don't live up to those around you. Find an ideal and aspire to it. |
I have to agree with Susan on this. Saying "The world is cruel, deal with it" essentially justifies any manner of harm people cause one another and tells those who are hurt by it to stop "whining" if they're unhappy about it. That doesn't make sense.
One can easily offer honest, productive critiques in which they reveal that they don't like something without resorting to cruel measures. It's not that difficult at all. Sure, there's people who will take anything less than praise badly, but most people would like to know if their work was good or bad, and what they could do to improve it. It's just a matter of people having enough consideration to make the effort - and that, not that people are whiny, is the issue. Encouraging people to be compassionate should be the goal, not encouraging them to become complacent and despair. |
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spaciegirlreturn The Order of Denderah
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2767 Location: Jupiter
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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I just don't think we should be expected to be "nice", just like we are expected (or maybe encouraged is a better word) not to be "mean". It's hard to critique or discuss any art form (and I use the word art loosely) without stating your personal opinion. Sometimes opinions are not "nice". Like "She is a bad actress." That is an opinion..and it's not really "nice" but I don't think stating that is "mean" either. If you're putting your work out there, people are going to give their opinions. And, yes I understand the concept of tact and not being mean just for the sake of being mean, but I don't think we should all only share our opinions if they are complimentary or nice. That's unrealistic and getting into dangerous territory. _________________ Me and my key...same as it ever was. |
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Lurker Guest
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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I think most everyone would agree with that. The idea of not saying anything if something nice can't be said is certainly a terrible one, and leads to all kinds of problems.
I also think the word "nice" could be taken a couple of different ways. There's being complimentary and then there's avoiding being mean. Given how often people are mean to one another, offering a critique without being mean (even when there is no praise involved) is often classified as nice.
I personally don't expect anyone to offer praise or nothing - and wouldn't want them to. I do hope, though, that when their opinion isn't complimentary, they can present it without actually attacking. |
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Susan Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 402 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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spaciegirlreturn wrote: | I just don't think we should be expected to be "nice", just like we are expected (or maybe encouraged is a better word) not to be "mean". It's hard to critique or discuss any art form (and I use the word art loosely) without stating your personal opinion. Sometimes opinions are not "nice". Like "She is a bad actress." That is an opinion..and it's not really "nice" but I don't think stating that is "mean" either. | I'd like to clarify here. Saying "She is a bad actress." is an opinion is moot. Critique is all about the word "constructive" and nothing about the word "criticism". If you can't state clear, logical reasons for your opinion, you shouldn't be stating your opinion. If you can't help, don't take the scalpel.
Quote: | I also think the word "nice" could be taken a couple of different ways. There's being complimentary and then there's avoiding being mean. Given how often people are mean to one another, offering a critique without being mean (even when there is no praise involved) is often classified as nice. | Except for in the context of my statement above, I'm with you on this. |
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