 |
Lonelygirl15
Forum to post messages about Bree and Danielbeast
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
th3_n3w_c4d
Suspiciously Absent
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 3
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: Watchers v. The Order |
 |
|
Well if you've been paying attention lately, you'd notice something peculiar.
Yes the watchers are rather intimidating, but they haven't proven to be...Threatening really when you think about it.
Merely 'watching' as it were.
They seem to want to protect Bree, but from what?
The Order.
Unless there is a different group out to get Bree, it would seem the Watchers are protecting Bree from The Order and the Hymn of One.
Could it be, the Watchers really aren't part of the Order like we once thought?
Remember Gemma was the first to really tell us about The Watchers, and warned Bree about them. We then found out Gemma worked for the Order.
So, then, if she works for the Order, why would she warn Bree about the Watchers? Wouldn't it have been easier to not say anything at all, or perhaps make Bree trustful of them instead?
Also, the symbol on their hands, resemble the symbol that the Resistance uses to signify themselves.
What if the Watchers, aren't working for the Order at all, but actually for the Resistance, to protect Bree from the Order?
Considering, they haven't physically acted against Bree, but only when Bree's enemies appear, do they seem to do something about it.
DUN DUN DUNNNN!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Lurker
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not to be rude (you're new to the forum; welcome, by the way), but this has been discussed many, many times, and it's usually agreed that the Watchers absolutely must be part of the Order and that the Creators didn't always intend for Gemma to be bad, so some of the stuff she said was actually meant to be helpful and was true.
While she did warn Bree against the Watchers, she also warned her against going to the police (which Bree had already decided not to do) and warned her against thinking that they would let her off the hook in doing the ceremony (which would be stupid for a member of the Order to say to her; Gemma should have been trying to encourage her to do it, not scare her away from it). She even told her - before B&D started living in motels, mind you - that a family whose daughter was supposed to do the ceremony had disappeared. Obviously the Order wouldn't be trying to encourage her to run away from them, but that's what Gemma's comments would do (and Gemma we know to have been working for the Order since at least February of 2006 based on things revealed in the OpAPHID ARG).
Gemma was just changed to a bad guy randomly because her actor was leaving the show and many viewers didn't like her anyway (yes, it would have been better to have killed her off as a good guy; it would have kept things logical and consistent).
As for the Watchers, they're not trying to protect Bree from the Order. They're just trying to protect her from being forced into the ceremony (they still want her to do it, but willingly). They have physically acted against Jonas, by the way, and though he took a swing first, it was the Watcher's own fault. He made no attempt to explain himself as being there to help, and - even if he had - Jonas had done way more to help Bree by that point than they had, so that Watcher should have had respect for Jonas if he actually had Bree's best interests in mind himself.
The resistance's symbol, by the way, was adopted in opposition to the Order, so it wouldn't make sense for them to be adopting a similar symbol to somebody who was on their side if they wanted to express opposition. Also, the white board in the resistance's bunker showed the Watchers as being part of the Order (the resistance classified them that way theirself, indicating that the Watchers weren't part of their group at all). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
longlostposter
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 5186
Location: Louisiana
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I do think it's possible, though, that there are two groups of Watchers.
We know that HoO is not actually a religion, but a front. TFW is resistance to HoO, and some members are members of HoO, and some are not. Those who are TFW within HoO could view HoO as a religion, not the secret society those who have the upper-hand within it are using it for. OTW, they want HoO to actually be what the front appears it to be, and believe in it as a true religion.
That said, I think it's possible that both the TFW and HoO have "Watchers" observing, and recording, what goes down with DBJ.
_________________
You can call me Juli or LLP, whichever suits your fancy.
I want the ghost of Jim Morrison to come and haunt me.
Proud member of the DB Fan Club.
Shout outs to my beautiful daughter badkittyx1505, Aithne, and Lurker. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
well we know that there are two groups of watchers.
We also know that there are Official watchers, and then there are the "rule breaking watchers"
Like Bree has said, the "Official" Watchers are there to almost protect her.
But then there is a separate group who does not agree with the rules, and breaks them (The Kidnapper) in order for Bree to do the ceremony.
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lurker
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Killthesmiley wrote: | | well we know that there are two groups of watchers. |
We do? What did I miss?
| Killthesmiley wrote: | | But then there is a separate group who does not agree with the rules, and breaks them (The Kidnapper) in order for Bree to do the ceremony. |
I don't think that was a Watcher who kidnapped her. The kidnapper even received a message on their Blackberry saying that the Watchers would try to interfere.
ETA: Juli's idea may be right. Both the Order and the resistance group might have "Watcher"-like people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
well I didn't mean like....watcher as in title wise
I meant like...
there are two groups who are after Bree.
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
th3_n3w_c4d
Suspiciously Absent
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 3
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| longlostposter wrote: | I do think it's possible, though, that there are two groups of Watchers.
We know that HoO is not actually a religion, but a front. TFW is resistance to HoO, and some members are members of HoO, and some are not. Those who are TFW within HoO could view HoO as a religion, not the secret society those who have the upper-hand within it are using it for. OTW, they want HoO to actually be what the front appears it to be, and believe in it as a true religion.
That said, I think it's possible that both the TFW and HoO have "Watchers" observing, and recording, what goes down with DBJ. |
I agree with this, that there may be perhaps a 'Good' Watcher.
I don't see it being impossible for the Resistance to have Watchers on the inside. The white board in the bunker doesn't give much clues as one would think into the Order, which may mean, they don't know quite as much about the Order as some may think.
Which would mean, they need spies on the inside. A watcher acts as a babysitter, or so says the white board, could the watcher be 'babysitting' Bree as it were?
The one main watcher as it were, the bald one that showed up at the motel in the beginning, and at Jonas' house, and perhaps the one that shot the man who captured BDJ could be either on side with the Resistance, or part of a division in the Order, or perhaps HoO.
However, what doesn't make sense, is what was Bree part of in the beginning? When did the division occur?
Or more so, who is in on what side?
Op Aphid appears to be on a side trying to force Bree, with violence and fear factors to bring her in, to do the ceremony. The nameless man, I recall worked for Op Aphid to bring this about as well.
Also one would believe, that the people who shot Bree's dad were part of this more aggressive division of the Order.
With that said, when Daniel was caught, the order provided a video far to similar to those like Op Aphid, which isn't is too obvious to simply be considered a coincidence or what have you.
So does that mean Lucy is in part with this division of the Order as well? That would mean, so is Gemma. The main Watcher we see most often, doesn't show up in the Human Ransom video, perhaps because they have nothing to do with that part. You would think, though that a Watcher that's been close to them this whole time, would take part in this operation.
It was also a Watcher that saved them in the desert, I believe it to be the same watcher from the motel room, and Jonas' house.
So it would seem, every character from the Order we know about, besides this one Watcher has taken very aggressive means to force Bree into doing the ceremony.
There were many opportunities for him to simply kidnap her, and tke her in himself, but he hasn't, one might say, well he's trying to give her the choice. But they can do that simply with the use of drugs like the Order tried in the past. But he doesn't. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lurker
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| th3_n3w_c4d wrote: | | I don't see it being impossible for the Resistance to have Watchers on the inside. |
That seems possible.
| th3_n3w_o4d wrote: | | The white board in the bunker doesn't give much clues as one would think into the Order, which may mean, they don't know quite as much about the Order as some may think. |
Maybe the white board is just a summary? Or its old? In any case, they'd have probably known if the Watchers were their own guys. They might have one or two (or a group like them of their own, as Juli suggested), but I'd say the Watchers themselves are definitely part of the Order.
| th3_n3w_o4d wrote: | | The one main watcher as it were, the bald one that showed up at the motel in the beginning, and at Jonas' house, and perhaps the one that shot the man who captured BDJ could be either on side with the Resistance, or part of a division in the Order, or perhaps HoO. |
I think we also saw that same Watcher at the fake ceremony, by the way. Wasn't that the same one? It was hard to see him, but I think it was him.
| th3_n3w_o4d wrote: | | However, what doesn't make sense, is what was Bree part of in the beginning? When did the division occur? |
Bree was just a follow of the Hymn of One. Her parents seem to have become more than that, though.
The division, by the way, couldn't have happened too long ago. In "Training Hard," Bree said that there the resistance formed "a few years ago" from people from both inside and outside the Order.
| th3_n3w_o4d wrote: | | Op Aphid appears to be on a side trying to force Bree, with violence and fear factors to bring her in, to do the ceremony. The nameless man, I recall worked for Op Aphid to bring this about as well. |
I still find this idea questionable. OpAphid was the one who said they couldn't force Bree. I think this idea only came up because the Creators lost the rights to use OpAphid and they were trying to find a way to force her out of the picture - and got stuff conflicted in the process.
| th3_n3w_o4d wrote: | | Also one would believe, that the people who shot Bree's dad were part of this more aggressive division of the Order. |
That's the thing: As you said, Lucy's been involved with them too. She was there when he got shot (she may have even pulled the trigger), yet she's been in the picture all along as Bree's helper, well before OpAPHID got involved with Bree.
| th3_n3w_o4d wrote: | | With that said, when Daniel was caught, the order provided a video far to similar to those like Op Aphid, which isn't is too obvious to simply be considered a coincidence or what have you. |
That and it had their symbol at the beginning of the vid too.
| th3_n3w_o4d wrote: | | There were many opportunities for him to simply kidnap her, and tke her in himself, but he hasn't, one might say, well he's trying to give her the choice. But they can do that simply with the use of drugs like the Order tried in the past. But he doesn't. |
I don't think drugging her is considered the same as giving her the choice. Alex didn't seem to think so when she said she'd never do that and that Bree has to do it herself.
| longlostposter wrote: | | Those who are TFW within HoO could view HoO as a religion, not the secret society those who have the upper-hand within it are using it for. |
I think this is probably true of a lot of people within the Order (like Alex, and maybe Lucy; Lucy told her its her choice too). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
longlostposter
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 5186
Location: Louisiana
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Let's not forget, though, Lurker, that Lucy was involved in Daniel's detention (if not kidnapping).
_________________
You can call me Juli or LLP, whichever suits your fancy.
I want the ghost of Jim Morrison to come and haunt me.
Proud member of the DB Fan Club.
Shout outs to my beautiful daughter badkittyx1505, Aithne, and Lurker. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lurker
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yeah, but I'm assuming anyone but Bree is fair game for being harmed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
longlostposter
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 5186
Location: Louisiana
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lurker wrote: | | Yeah, but I'm assuming anyone but Bree is fair game for being harmed. |
Gotcha.
_________________
You can call me Juli or LLP, whichever suits your fancy.
I want the ghost of Jim Morrison to come and haunt me.
Proud member of the DB Fan Club.
Shout outs to my beautiful daughter badkittyx1505, Aithne, and Lurker. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Susan
Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 402
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| We've heard the Watchers are there to protect, but have we ever seen them do it? What if that, too, is a lie? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
longlostposter
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 5186
Location: Louisiana
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lurker wrote: | | Yeah, but I'm assuming anyone but Bree is fair game for being harmed. |
True, but this goes back to the whole idea of free will, right?
I'm adding this now because I forgot what I was originally thinking when I responded the first time.
Susan, since the bunker is a resistance one, then I probably wouldn't be a "lie", so much as a mistake, or a POV of the resistance as to what the purpose of the watchers was, in their opinion, from the point of view of the Order. Follow me?
Did the word "protectors" have a question mark behind it on the whiteboard?
_________________
You can call me Juli or LLP, whichever suits your fancy.
I want the ghost of Jim Morrison to come and haunt me.
Proud member of the DB Fan Club.
Shout outs to my beautiful daughter badkittyx1505, Aithne, and Lurker. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lurker
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| longlostposter wrote: | | Lurker wrote: | | Yeah, but I'm assuming anyone but Bree is fair game for being harmed. |
True, but this goes back to the whole idea of free will, right?
I'm adding this now because I forgot what I was originally thinking when I responded the first time. |
Yeah, but I don't think they're concerned with anyone's free will but that of the chosen girls - and even then, only to a certain extent. They (including Lucy, who we know to be a Hymn of One member, a Helper and someone who had told Bree it's her choice) killed Bree's dad, kidnapped Daniel, brainwashed him, had him tell Bree to do the ceremony, and seemed to consider it fair game to put Bree in the position of trading herself for Daniel (and it was after all this that Lucy told Bree it was her choice).
I think that to at least most of them, even the less extreme divison, anything short of actually physically forcing her into the ceremony is acceptable.
| longlostposter wrote: | | Did the word "protectors" have a question mark behind it on the whiteboard? |
I think so, yeah. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Susan
Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 402
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Lurker wrote: | | I think that to at least most of them, even the less extreme divison, anything short of actually physically forcing her into the ceremony is acceptable. |
What a depressing thought. Logical, observable, but depressing none-the-less.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
