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Lonelygirl15
Forum to post messages about Bree and Danielbeast
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kittenishtrance
Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 335
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 Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:39 am Post subject: |
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This was just not good. Oh and...
Whatever happened to that girl Lucy?
Or any helper? Where are the watchers? Her parents? I think this whole kidnapping video was a bad idea. I don't care how The Creators end up justifying it, or if it all turns out to be fake to throw the Order off, but it's still not good.
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Skunkwaffle
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Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 460
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Lurker you do make a good point. And I do agree with what you said about "not playing it safe". I'm not sure this is the best way to go about it.
I guess we'll just have to see where this leads the story to find out if this was a good idea on the part of the characters and on the creators.
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Lurker
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:52 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, you're right. We'll have to wait and see for now.
Which sucks, because I know we all want to be able to decide right now 100% where we stand on this. XD |
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RoseCrowley
Owen's Helper
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1951
Location: Orlando, Floriduh
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Hello Skunkwaffle,
You have made some really great points! May I share my opinion?
I for one do not condone the action of kidnapipng or kidnapping minors in real life, but again this isn't real life. This show is for our entertainment and they can not please everyone. I do understand how this series has transgressed (and sometimes degressed) but it is not suppost to be like a "role model". Yes at the beginning, Bree could of been considered a role model, smart, innocent, funny... but with this whole other side to the lg15 story, it isn't the same show. Again, yes, kidnapping is wrong and a felony....but does that mean I'm going to stop watching the show for entertainment value? ofcourse not. Just because the producers put controversial topics in their story does not mean they condone them in real life. Daniel would be in jail for underage drinking, jonas could of pressed charges against bree and daniel for what they did back at the cabin, the whole drug injecting process, the "cult" like religion and etc etc... The creators don't want us to get drunk to forget our problems, kidnap people because we "think" we are doing the right thing, join a cultist religion who promises a brother/sisterhood and free will.... they are trying to have controversial issues to spark our interest and debate on the forums. If there wasn't some controversy, some may feel this is a lulling experience and quit watching. No, not everyone wants action packed all the time, but they are trying to provide something besides those boring filler videos. I work in retail (blah) and whenever there is an unsatisfied customer for whatever reason, they 99% of the time say, "this place sucks, i'm going to _____" Well telling me this doesn't solve to problem of their bad experince. They just yell at the next person their way in order to resatisfied rather than what they wanted instead. What I'm getting to is saying, yes, you may not agree with the way the story is headed, but rather than just saying so, suggest alternative ways for the story to go. I'm not trying to make it sound like you don't have the right to complain, you do, but just giving you an outsiders prospective. Please do not take it disrespectfully,
Rose
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giddeanx
Devoted Fan
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 701
Location: What's round on the ends and HI in the middle?
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: |
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I absolutely loved this video.
I have no problem with the Creators using kidnapping as a dramatic tool. It actually shows how desperate TAAG is, how far Bree is willing to go.
You got to see each of the characters convictions and motivations. It had a charged atmosphere and moved very well.
I don't agree with them for kidnapping her, there had to be other options, but some of those options they squished in the previous video when they jumped her outside of the school.
(Approaching someone who maybe skiddish by leaping out at her won't make her want to be your friend, and hurts any chances in the future.) The kidnapping did not seem that far off base for bree and seemed logical.
In the end I loved the video even if Bree sinks lower into "evil" :p
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RoseCrowley
Owen's Helper
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1951
Location: Orlando, Floriduh
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| giddeanx wrote: | I absolutely loved this video.
I have no problem with the Creators using kidnapping as a dramatic tool. It actually shows how desperate TAAG is, how far Bree is willing to go.
You got to see each of the characters convictions and motivations. It had a charged atmosphere and moved very well.
I don't agree with them for kidnapping her, there had to be other options, but some of those options they squished in the previous video when they jumped her outside of the school.
(Approaching someone who maybe skiddish by leaping out at her won't make her want to be your friend, and hurts any chances in the future.) The kidnapping did not seem that far off base for bree and seemed logical.
In the end I loved the video even if Bree sinks lower into "evil" :p |
hehe yeah most def
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RoseCrowley:I wish my tooth would fall out so i could trade it with the tooth fairy!
TTT:Granted, but the fairy takes your credit card instead of leaving money and gets like fifty lap dances w/ it.
Mawhahaha! |
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Skunkwaffle
Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 460
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: |
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You know, after all the fucked up things TAAG have done to each other, just to make up and be bff's again 2 videos later, I can't help but wonder if Jules is just going to end up joinin up with them by the end of next week like nothing ever happened.
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Lurker
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: |
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I guess that'll depend on whether they can convince her that this was to help her. If she really is the next ceremony girl, and they can convince her that it's bad, there's no other good option for her to take.
Hopefully she'll understand why they did it, and maybe even forgive them. But at the least, hopefully she'll understand. |
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Spades
Owen's Helper
Joined: 08 Apr 2007
Posts: 1679
Location: Cassie is watching, and so is everyone else, she's not that special.
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:52 am Post subject: |
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How is this fucked up? At all?
I mean, they took Jules from a bunch of weirdos who have ties to pharmaseutical research, injected Bree, Killed her dad, probably thinking about doing the same to Daniel, might have killed Jonas's parents, or maybe just keeps them locked in a cell somewhere, killed all those people in the book that Alex had, and are connected to the famed Satanist Aleister Crowley.
And it is not like they are going to molest her or anything, which you would find on primetime television. In fact, this whole show is considerably "softer" than some of the crap I have seen on the tube.
However, I found myself chuckling to myself, thinking, "How bad would it be if she had nothing to do with this? Or if she is a decoy?"
They could have planned that out better. And, they should have never, never, showed their faces to Jules. Anonymity can prove very useful when you are taking someone gainst their will. I mean, Jonas is loaded, right? They should have waited, staked out the house, bought some ski-masks, and then gone in when they had all the info they needed.
Not to mention that this whole episode can be used as evidence against them.
Edit: Okay. Crowley was not a Satanist. Thank you Lurker for pointing that out. But he still is a really weird ass guy, and anyone following him can not exactly be very nice and loving upstanding citizens, can they? |
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Breeze
Casual Observer
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 51
Location: minneapolis, mn, usa
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with giddeanx, RoseCrowley & Spades. I think the creators are being brave by taking it to the next level. I love it =D
It's not like they went in and were cold and heartless about it. they were all argueing and trying to help this poor girl. i can't wait for more. |
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garnet
Lonely Fan
Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 188
Location: Jolly Olde England
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Lurker wrote: |
| ApotheosisAZ wrote: | It is still possible that Julia asked TAAG to do this by passing a note in "the blue folder." She may have wanted them to stage a kidnapping.
I hope that is what happened. |
I hope it isn't, to be honest. I think it would destroy what could be an amazing moment of development for Bree's character (I don't even like her and I'm saying this, so you can imagine that it must really be a defining moment in my opinion). She had to make a moral judgment here, and it was one that didn't have a single perfectly clean option. |
I like the idea of this being staged, but I went back and watched it again with that in mind, and I don't think it's likely. Initally, I had been thinking something along the lines of what Lurker is saying here -- some way for Bree to mature -- but I really have to wonder if we'll actually get that or just some lame shrug and grin routine. Plus, suspention of disbelief on them not getting caught -- pretty big stretch -- even Jonas isn't convinced!
| Lurker wrote: |
Say what one will, this says a lot about Bree's drive to save a complete stranger. And, actually, we can't really say that Bree didn't try alternate means. We saw her try talking to her before, and they may have tried that again here (but didn't film it). |
What else does Bree have left to care about? What else does she have left to lose?
| Lurker wrote: |
In any case, one can't deny that this is a more interesting take than Jules saying "Oh, Bree! Come save me!" Then she really would be a repeat of Bree. Here Bree's trying to save someone against their will.
If nothing else, it does raise an interesting moral question. If they felt she was going to die soon, should they have left her to that fate just to avoid kidnapping her? I mean, if she said "No, I don't believe you," should they have let it go at that? Or should Jules only be rescued if she already believed she was in danger? That seems weak. I have to applaud the Creators for making the decision to go ahead with this instead of "playing it safe."
They challenged normal expectations of what it means to be a good guy, but in a believable way that leaves no clear room of saying it was absolutely the right or wrong thing to do - and without making it something extremely callous in the process (like killing her to serve the greater good). |
Moral relativism and knowing when it's important to break the rules are interesting topics, but much more interesting when Bree or someone is explaining her thought process and the prisoner is kicking and screaming in the background. Plus, didn't we already go there with Jonas??
Yes, flaws make characters stronger if they grow as a result. Unfortunately, a lot of us were dissatisfied with the way Daniel's re-hab came about. He's normal. He's a drunk! He's normal again. Whoopee. Where's the growth?
If this were another genre, I might think that it is a really important point for us to know that Bree tends to jump the gun and tie people up without sufficent reason. But, unfortunately, for all the potential set-ups in the story, there have been very few pay-offs. One possible exception being "Me for Daniel."
What would I prefer to see? I would like to see Bree grow up a little as a result of this somehow. I would like to see her actually talk about her past and her problems instead of just shutting them up in a box (Jonas can help with this!). I would like to see her face her demons. I want her to confront her "mom!"
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Languorous Lass
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 2571
Location: Gone, baby, gone
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Lurker wrote: | | Bree's been compared to Wonder Woman. Well, let's keep in mind that Wonder Woman snapped Maxwell Lord's neck to stop him when he was controlling Superman (who had nearly killed Batman). |
Somebody's been reading DC Comics lately. 
Seriously, Lurker, I think you've made some excellent points, and I really hope your take on this development is the correct one. Because if it isn't, I agree with whoever it was who suggested that we just saw Fonzie's surfboard leap over the proverbial shark.
On the Wonder Woman development, though: what made WW's actions particularly shocking is the fact that she's sworn an oath to bring peace to Patriarch's World (or whatever the world that's not Paradise Island is being called in this iteration of the DCUniverse). The fact that she could see no alternative but to kill Max Lord showed just how desperate she was.
But Bree has no such history. She's just a teenage girl floundering around trying to figure out what to do next. I think you're right that this less-than-smooth move could mark a major turning point in the development of her character, but it really can't be compared to WW's making a deliberate decision to break her oath and kill someone.
ETA: | Spades wrote: | | Edit: Okay. Crowley was not a Satanist. Thank you Lurker for pointing that out. But he still is a really weird ass guy, and anyone following him can not exactly be very nice and loving upstanding citizens, can they? |
Oh, you do not want to get me started.
Unfortunately, it's too late to stop me. 
The fact that somebody's beliefs are different from yours, and unfamiliar to you, does not mean that those beliefs are invalid, or that the person is not a "very nice and loving upstanding citizen."
I mean, let's take a look at Christianity, from the viewpoint of somebody from Mars. "Hm. These people worship a being who was killed in a horrific way. Many of them wear a symbol representing their god's torture and murder. Some of them keep statues or pictures in their homes that represent his killing in a realistic, and extremely bloody, way. And their religious rituals incorporate the symbolic ingestion of his body and blood -- in other words, cannibalism. Clearly, this is an extremely primitive and sadistic society."
My point: everybody's beliefs can sound "weird ass," depending on how they're described. |
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TheeBerean
Lonely Fan
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 192
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| pariah164 wrote: | Ahaha, I have to say I agree with you on some points. But you're missing the big picture: it's FAKE. It's meant to be entertainment. It's no worse than some stuff you see on primetime tv.
That being said... yeah, it's a little... eeeh. |
There were several comments along this line, but I bring up one aspect: it depends on what show you watch. You turn on certain shows expecting certain things. Yes, surprises and twists and the unexpected can be great... but you build an audience by introducing new material and twists while still masterfully meeting a few core neccessaties. When you watch certain shows, there are somethings you just don't want to see: Daniel hog-tying a little girl and then leaving her inside while he goes outside and casually blogs to the camera, while you can see this girl tied-up, lying on the floor and banging on the window screaming for help is not what I want to see from LG15. At least not the way it went down. Simply wrong... disturbing even. If this was a neccessary evil, its up to the story tellers to convince us of that. They made no attempt to do so. A shocking, attention getting turn of events -- Yes. But horrid story telling. Desparation without reason is simply bad TV.
~tb
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Lurker
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Languorous Lass wrote: | | Lurker wrote: | | Bree's been compared to Wonder Woman. Well, let's keep in mind that Wonder Woman snapped Maxwell Lord's neck to stop him when he was controlling Superman (who had nearly killed Batman). |
Somebody's been reading DC Comics lately. |
Haha, maybe.
At least you know somebody got the "Crisis of Infinite Cassies" thing, right?
| Languorous Lass wrote: | | Seriously, Lurker, I think you've made some excellent points, and I really hope your take on this development is the correct one. Because if it isn't, I agree with whoever it was who suggested that we just saw Fonzie's surfboard leap over the proverbial shark. |
Thanks for saying so. I really hope I'm right too. If so, this will have been wonderful. At least I think so.
| Languorous Lass wrote: | On the Wonder Woman development, though: what made WW's actions particularly shocking is the fact that she's sworn an oath to bring peace to Patriarch's World (or whatever the world that's not Paradise Island is being called in this iteration of the DCUniverse). The fact that she could see no alternative but to kill Max Lord showed just how desperate she was.
But Bree has no such history. She's just a teenage girl floundering around trying to figure out what to do next. I think you're right that this less-than-smooth move could mark a major turning point in the development of her character, but it really can't be compared to WW's making a deliberate decision to break her oath and kill someone. |
Yeah, it's not quite the same. I was just going with that because of the Wonder Woman-Bree comparison a few weeks ago. |
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cbizzle44
Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 446
Location: in the night light, we still shine bright
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| giddeanx wrote: | I absolutely loved this video.
I have no problem with the Creators using kidnapping as a dramatic tool. It actually shows how desperate TAAG is, how far Bree is willing to go.
You got to see each of the characters convictions and motivations. It had a charged atmosphere and moved very well.
I don't agree with them for kidnapping her, there had to be other options, but some of those options they squished in the previous video when they jumped her outside of the school.
(Approaching someone who maybe skiddish by leaping out at her won't make her want to be your friend, and hurts any chances in the future.) The kidnapping did not seem that far off base for bree and seemed logical.
In the end I loved the video even if Bree sinks lower into "evil" :p |
i was about to say "was i the only one who loved this and thought it was one of the least thought out/most awesome bdj has ever done?"
basicallly, for a while we've been saying "omg this is getting boring there's no action just bree in the bunker telling us nothing"
and now everyone's saying "omg they did something illegal!" (definately not for the first time too....)
so pretty much, it was a much-needed plot twist.
and i'm going to throw this out there as well:
i checked for a new video in study hall today. i couldn't watch it because the sound would give me away, so i read the transcript. and literally, i started giggling happily. people looked at me. it was awkward (but atleast lgpedia looks like wikipedia...)
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