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Lonelygirl15
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cbizzle44
Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 446
Location: in the night light, we still shine bright
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 Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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so i'm sitting here wondering what the purpose of the ceremony is. at first i guess i (like everyone else) assumed it had some kind of religious purpose, but that doesn't make sense anymore. so i'm puzzled, and then sack pretty much completes my life:
| sack36 wrote: | | Maybe they're looking for the cure for death. |
but then it wouldn't have to be done periodically would it.... unless the ceremony isn't the same every time, that the only thing that stays consistant is the arbritrary steps and enochian words.....
consider this: ceremony girl=some kind of test subject
for the order's quest for immortality
WHOOAAAAAAAAA
i don't know how plausible this is, but i like it a lot
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JustAnotherLonelyGirl.
P. Monkey's Agent
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 2094
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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There is still the possibility that the Ceremony girl must be missing a trait.
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JakeYGS
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Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 11:34 pm Post subject: Trait Negative |
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Bree said that certain girls with certain traits were picked from birth and put into certain families to do the ceremony later in their lives. Later, the list of potential girls was narrowed down even farther. That's why it was such an honor to be allowed to do the ceremony.
Trait negative must mean that Jules lacked the traits they were looking for for the girl to do the ceremony, which means she can't be the one they're looking for. |
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Tennafox
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 12:21 am Post subject: |
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Hey Gidget, Sorry to burst your bubble. The type of gobulin that Epogen makes more of is hemogolulin found in red blood cells. The gobulin that you showed in your picture is called Immunogobulin created and secreted from White blood cells. They are better known as antibodies. There are multiple types IgG (gamma), IgM, IgE.. etc. The age chart you found is presumable for a breast fed infant which is getting the maternal antibodies (Immunogobulin) from Mom's milk or from the placenta before birth. That immunity starts to wane off when the kids gets to be about 6 months old. Then they get colds and start making their own antibodies....
Wendi
| sack36 wrote: | | Gidget wrote: | | I did some research on blood traits with little luck. The only thing I found was something called "thalassemia trait" which can be treated with epogen, but it sounds like a bad thing and didn't seem to fit the story. *shrug* |
Recently I saw a TED talks that is researching the possibility that cancer (a really bad thing) might be able to be used to regrow damaged organs (a pretty darn good thing). So I figure that thalassemia (akin to cycle cell anemia) may have some traits that are good also. I went digging.
Here's what I found so far: Epogen increases the globin in a person's blood, right? But there is more than one kind of globin. ( hope I'm not loosing people on this. If you have problems following, let me know and I'll try to explain better) Not only are there different kinds, but the amounts of each changes dependent on age!
At birth, ¥ globin swaps with ß globin, but alpha globin (sorry this font doesn't carry the full range of greek letters) has no counterpart. What would happen if a genetic marker showed up that created an opposite of the a globin? Say ∞ globin? That's where I'm going next.
ETA: On the way there, I took a left turn and came up with something else interesting.
In the above image you can see one other globin molecule, and it bears an uncanny resemblance to our little 8 symbol. It's the delta globin. researching that now.
Before I go, though, I'd like to point out that Thelassemia shows up in just about every racial/cultural group except northern European. Since Bree is obviously from Northern European (non Mediterranean) stock, this may have a significance.
Found this quote: "Our goal is to design a modified EKLF [?] that binds to the defective delta-globin promoter and enhances delta-globin gene expression. [1996]" gettin there. |
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Tennafox
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Hey a couple more medical facts for you guys.
thalassemia does have different types. It basically causes the hemoglobulin to not hold oxygen correctly. Since it is genetic, giving epogen would just create more red blood cells which also couldn't carry oxygen correctly. Patients with this are quite ill (most of the time) and require blood transfusions to have "good" hemoglobulin...
also the squigly line that you guys were talking about is called delta. It;s just another type of antibody.
Wendi |
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theplayer01
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Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 12:45 am Post subject: My ZThoughhts |
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| Granted I am not a doctor but I am a health official. Epogen is used in pregnant woman that are iron deficient. It is not used often. As The women needs to be very iron deficient. But it is used. It could be very wrong but it is still what I think. |
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sack36
Devoted Fan
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 549
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| Tennafox wrote: | Hey Gidget, Sorry to burst your bubble. The type of gobulin that Epogen makes more of is hemogolulin found in red blood cells. The gobulin that you showed in your picture is called Immunogobulin created and secreted from White blood cells. They are better known as antibodies. There are multiple types IgG (gamma), IgM, IgE.. etc. The age chart you found is presumable for a breast fed infant which is getting the maternal antibodies (Immunogobulin) from Mom's milk or from the placenta before birth. That immunity starts to wane off when the kids gets to be about 6 months old. Then they get colds and start making their own antibodies....
Wendi
| sack36 wrote: | | Gidget wrote: | | I did some research on blood traits with little luck. The only thing I found was something called "thalassemia trait" which can be treated with epogen, but it sounds like a bad thing and didn't seem to fit the story. *shrug* |
Recently I saw a TED talks that is researching the possibility that cancer (a really bad thing) might be able to be used to regrow damaged organs (a pretty darn good thing). So I figure that thalassemia (akin to cycle cell anemia) may have some traits that are good also. I went digging.
Here's what I found so far: Epogen increases the globin in a person's blood, right? But there is more than one kind of globin. ( hope I'm not loosing people on this. If you have problems following, let me know and I'll try to explain better) Not only are there different kinds, but the amounts of each changes dependent on age!
At birth, ¥ globin swaps with ß globin, but alpha globin (sorry this font doesn't carry the full range of greek letters) has no counterpart. What would happen if a genetic marker showed up that created an opposite of the a globin? Say ∞ globin? That's where I'm going next.
ETA: On the way there, I took a left turn and came up with something else interesting.
In the above image you can see one other globin molecule, and it bears an uncanny resemblance to our little 8 symbol. It's the delta globin. researching that now.
Before I go, though, I'd like to point out that Thelassemia shows up in just about every racial/cultural group except northern European. Since Bree is obviously from Northern European (non Mediterranean) stock, this may have a significance.
Found this quote: "Our goal is to design a modified EKLF [?] that binds to the defective delta-globin promoter and enhances delta-globin gene expression. [1996]" gettin there. |
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Wendy, I don't think you got even one part of this right. The chart is mine, not Gidget's. The chart is about globin, not gobulin. The globins come from the red blood cells, not the white. The age chart clearly shows pre and post gestation, not birth to 6 months. And finally, since we're talking about globins, we are not referring to the antibodies that make up white (Immunogobulin) blood cells.
| Quote: | thalassemia does have different types. It basically causes the hemoglobulin to not hold oxygen correctly. Since it is genetic, giving epogen would just create more red blood cells which also couldn't carry oxygen correctly. Patients with this are quite ill (most of the time) and require blood transfusions to have "good" hemoglobulin...
also the squigly line that you guys were talking about is called delta. It;s just another type of antibody. |
Again, you're having a hard time with the differences between globin and gobulin. The different types of globin are:
Alpha & Beta - the most common of the globin mutation bundles with more than 200 different forms of mutation
Delta & Gamma - much less common. About 26 different paths to mutation.
Zeta & Epsilon - the least common of the mutation bundles. In fact, no data was found for these.
Because the work I posted was talking mostly about genetic defects and the possibility of using a gene therapy to correct genetic abnormalities, the Epogen has nothing to do with the chart. It has to do with the need for lots of Bree's blood.
Thalassema has two basic types: Alpha - the more damaging of the two. It shows primarily in Blacks, SE Asians, and Middle Easterners. Beta - much more common. Shows in Indian and Black families.
Now if you don't understand any of this, before objecting and trying to correct me, ask for clarification. I can do that.
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theplayer01
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Joined: 19 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 2:11 am Post subject: IGG |
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| Epogen is commonly used in people with IGG Immunogobulin deficiency. It is combined with a med that helps with antibody replacement therapy. |
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sack36
Devoted Fan
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 549
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 2:42 am Post subject: Re: IGG |
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| theplayer01 wrote: | | Epogen is commonly used in people with IGG Immunogobulin deficiency. It is combined with a med that helps with antibody replacement therapy. |
Cool. Now Epogen increases red blood cells. Why would they be needed when it's the white blood cells that are deficient? Does the med for antibody replacement use up or break up red blood cells?
_________________
H of SSJF -- Shhhhhh!!!
Member of Daniel Beast Fan Club
LG15 PHOTOS: http://www.flickr.com/groups/lg15/
http://2grandmas.com and http://laying8.com
Proud member of the Him of Won and the Humm of Juan |
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nowherepixie
Owen's Helper
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 1633
Location: Birmingham, England
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if the Creators have actually even thought it through as much as you guys! ?  |
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trainer101
Moderator Manager
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2671
Location: Wasting away again ILLUMINATIVILLE...
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 10:55 am Post subject: |
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It's entirely possible that Epogen is a red-herring. A deliberate action by the Order to divert attention from it's true agenda by posing as a legitimate research organization delving into the world of genetic disorders. Only Walter knows for sure.
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It's STILL all connected... |
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JustAnotherLonelyGirl.
P. Monkey's Agent
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 2094
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Trait Negative |
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| JakeYGS wrote: | Bree said that certain girls with certain traits were picked from birth and put into certain families to do the ceremony later in their lives. Later, the list of potential girls was narrowed down even farther. That's why it was such an honor to be allowed to do the ceremony.
Trait negative must mean that Jules lacked the traits they were looking for for the girl to do the ceremony, which means she can't be the one they're looking for. |
Very good point.
_________________
"Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof."
-- V For Vendetta <3 |
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nowherepixie
Owen's Helper
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 1633
Location: Birmingham, England
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| I hadn't thought of Epogen being a Red Herring before. Someone did say once nothign bad would happen if you got injected and didn't need it I think. So maybe... |
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sack36
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Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 549
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| nowherepixie wrote: | | I hadn't thought of Epogen being a Red Herring before. Someone did say once nothign bad would happen if you got injected and didn't need it I think. So maybe... |
Epogen, because it increases red blood cell production, can be dangerous. Over abundance of red blood cells will make the blood thicker, sludgy. I suspect the Red Herring is a red herring. Facility J was fanfic, so until that whole Canon magic happens I'll continue to pursue this line of reasoning.
_________________
H of SSJF -- Shhhhhh!!!
Member of Daniel Beast Fan Club
LG15 PHOTOS: http://www.flickr.com/groups/lg15/
http://2grandmas.com and http://laying8.com
Proud member of the Him of Won and the Humm of Juan |
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susanne_buit
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Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 19
Location: Holland
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| Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Sack, what you say about different kinds of globin sounds good, but one thing is not clear to me:
| Quote: | | At birth, ¥ globin swaps with ß globin, but alpha globin (sorry this font doesn't carry the full range of greek letters) has no counterpart. What would happen if a genetic marker showed up that created an opposite of the a globin? Say ∞ globin? That's where I'm going next. |
The alpha globin is present from the very first beginning, right? (If you look at that diagram) So why would alpha need a counterpart?
Ow and I don't know if this has already been said, but hemoglobine as a whole is made of 4 smaller parts. Usually, say 99%, this is 2x alpha + 2x beta. In newborns however, not all the gamma is replaced by the beta, so some hemoglobin (Hb) has 2x alpha and 2x gamma. But in a couple of weeks/months (idk) the gamma is replaced with beta and everything is normal. With this in mind, what place do delta, zeta and epsilon have? OW wait! I've found something about delta in a textbook. 2% of the adult Hb contains 2xalpha + 2xdelta. So that's normal. (the other 98% 2xalpha + 2xbeta). Nothing is said about zeta and epsilon though.
All right all right, way too technical, I know, but I just felt like I needed to drop some (kind of off topic) questions here. |
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