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Lonelygirl15
Forum to post messages about Bree and Danielbeast
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Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
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 Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject: The water discussion... |
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In the video forum, we were discussing the possibility of water playing a significant part in the plot, as in the "..Swimming..." video, Daniel and Bree go swimming, but Daniel does not swim.
And in the recent video, Daniel chooses not to go swimming, and seems to get slightly upset by Bree asking him if he wants to go swimming.
I went hunting on Wikipedia about the spiritual side of water. I was looking for a little darker meaning...but here is what Wiki said:
| Quote: | Water is considered a purifier in most religions. Major faiths that incorporate ritual washing (ablution) include Hinduism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Shinto. Water baptism is a central sacrament of Christianity; it is also a part of the practice of other religions, including Judaism (mikvah) and Sikhism (Amrit Sanskar). In addition, a ritual bath in pure water is performed for the dead in many religions including Judaism and Islam. In Islam, the five daily prayers can be done in most cases after completing washing certain parts of the body using clean water (wudu). In Shinto, water is used in almost all rituals to cleanse a person or an area (e.g., in the ritual of misogi). Water is mentioned in the Bible 442 times in the New International Version and 363 times in the King James Version: 2 Peter 3:5(b) states, "The earth was formed out of water and by water" (NIV).
Some faiths use water especially prepared for religious purposes (holy water in some Christian denominations, Amrit in Sikhism and Hinduism). Many religions also consider particular sources or bodies of water to be sacred or at least auspicious; examples include Lourdes in Roman Catholicism, the Zamzam Well in Islam and the River Ganges (among many others) in Hinduism.
Water is often believed to have spiritual powers. In Celtic mythology, Sulis is the local goddess of thermal springs; in Hinduism, the Ganges is also personified as a goddess, while Saraswati have been referred to as goddess in Vedas. Also water is one of the "panch-tatva"s (basic 5 elements, others including fire, earth, space, air). Alternatively, gods can be patrons of particular springs, rivers, or lakes: for example in Greek and Roman mythology, Peneus was a river god, one of the three thousand Oceanids.
The Greek philosopher Empedocles held that water is one of the four classical elements along with fire, earth and air, and was regarded as the ylem, or basic substance of the universe. Water was considered cold and moist. In the theory of the four bodily humors, water was associated with phlegm. Water was also one of the five elements in traditional Chinese philosophy, along with earth, fire, wood, and metal. water is good for the human body. |
I noted where is discusses how certain religions consider water as a sign of purity, and that it cleanses the body, making it pure.
I noted this because there has been a bit of speculation of Daniel's intentions. Are they pure?
I also noted where they discussed how the greek philospher Empedocles considered it a part of the "elements." It was considered the basic substance of the earth, and was considered cold and moist. Water is also considered a part of the chinese elements (fire, earth, wood, metal and water) and is good for the human body.
I decided then to check into these as well..
In the chinese tradition, Water (Yu) is associated with the direction north and is represented by the color black. It's associated heavinly creature is a black tortiose, season is winter, planet is mercury, it's taste is salty, sense is touch,its Yin Body organ Kidney, it's Yang body organ is urinary bladder and its finger is the little (pinky) finger. I noted north, only because I have read that people are speculating that they are traveling north, and OpAphid, Tachyon and Cassie all seem to have an attachment to north. Also I noticed that when putting the elements in the proper patern, a five pointed start (pentagram) can be draw. As many of you know, the pentagram is a significant symbol of protection in Paganism. I noticed this because there is talk of a Thelma based relgion influencing the order.
I also found this concerning the Japanese Five Elements:
| Quote: | | Sui or mizu, meaning "Water", represents the fluid, flowing, formless things in the world. Outside of the obvious example of rivers and the like, plants are also categorized under Sui, as they adapt to their environment, growing and changing according to the direction of the sun and the changing seasons. Blood and other bodily fluids are represented by Sui, as are mental or emotional tendencies towards adaptation and change. Sui can be associated with emotion, defensiveness, adaptability, flexibility, suppleness, and magnetism. |
In the lassical element article, I read that Water is associated with intuition and time.
That is what I have found.
So my conclusions...don't know. i'm really not good at figuring things out...
I'm more of an information gather-er. If someone wants to speculate...go for it.
Maybe we are looking too much into it.
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
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JustAnotherLonelyGirl.
P. Monkey's Agent
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 2094
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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The fact that it is represented by the color black caught my eye. We have noticed that the Order seems to be wearing a lot of black.
Also, the black tortoise thing.. Owen?
The "intuition and time" part too... time has been questioned, particularly in the video where Daniel scrolls over the time and 10/12/06 is shown as the date. This came into question because it was supposed to have occurred before the ceremony. Intuition may also tie into the whole "free will" thing.
I'm definitely going to look into this. |
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Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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I also found this concerning the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn:
| Quote: | The Grades of the Golden Dawn
First Order:
* Introduction—Neophyte 0=0
* Zelator 1=10
* Theoricus 2=9
* Practicus 3=8
* Philosophus 4=7
Second Order:
* Intermediate—Portal Grade
* Adeptus Minorus 5=6
* Adeptus Majorus 6=5
* Adeptus Exemptus 7=4
Third Order:
* Magister Templi 8=3
* Magus 9=2
* Ipsissimus 10=1
The paired numbers attached to the Grades relate to positions on the Tree of Life. The Neophyte Grade of "0=0" indicates no position on the Tree. For the others, the first numeral is the number of steps up from the bottom (Malkuth), and the second numeral is the number of steps down from the top (Kether).
The First Order Grades were related to the four Classical Elements of Earth, Air, Water and Fire, respectively. The Aspirant to a Grade received instruction on the metaphysical meaning of each of these Elements, and had to pass a written examination and demonstrate certain skills to receive Admission to that Grade.
The Portal Grade was the initiation ritual for admittance to the Second Order. The Circle of existing Adepts from the Second Order had to consent to allow an Aspirant to join the Second Order.
The Second Order was not, properly, part of the "Golden Dawn", but a separate Order in its own right, known as the R.R. et A.C. The Second Order directed the teachings of the First Order, and was the governing force behind the First Order.
After passing the Portal, the Aspirant was instructed in the techniques of practical Magic. When another examination was passed, and the other Adepts consented, the Aspirant attained the Grade of Adeptus Minor (5=6). There were also four sub-Grades of instruction for the Adeptus Minor, again relating to the four Outer Order grades.
A member of the Second Order had the power and authority to initiate aspirants to the First Order, though usually not without the permission of the Chiefs of his or her Lodge. |
It's a very little piece on water...but i thought it was interesting, as I've heard discussion of a possibiliy of a tie in, or similarity.
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
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spaciegirlreturn
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 2767
Location: Jupiter
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Jesus, I forgot you have to spell everything out on these effin' boards. Here, more relevant:
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/nun.htm
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Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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well that was a bit rude...
just looking for a water refrence...
didn't get into gods yet...
just posting as I find..i'm still lookikng.
anyways..read it. good stories about Ra.
A many know he's is famously known because of the Egyptian hyrogliph of the Eye (Eye of Ra). He is knownas ever watchful.
Water in egyptian mythology is considered choatic. They thought it as unpredictable.
Anyways...i'm still reading...
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
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spaciegirlreturn
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 2767
Location: Jupiter
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, I didn't mean for it to be rude.
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Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| spaciegirl wrote: | | Sorry, I didn't mean for it to be rude. |
s'ok sometimes i expect rude-ness from forum members...
anyways I honesstly gave up looking...
my findings are here...make of them what you wish.
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
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khjq
Enthusiastic Fan
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 442
Location: inside your head
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyway, the reason was obvious why Daniel didn't go swimming in the pool at the motel, because it was cold, Bree asked for Daniel's jacket cause she was cold. And in the Swimming video, we don't see Daniel get in the water, but the Camera does go on him once and he is wet, and Bree says "Daniel got in the water." |
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spaciegirlreturn
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 2767
Location: Jupiter
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Killthesmiley wrote: | | spaciegirl wrote: | | Sorry, I didn't mean for it to be rude. |
s'ok sometimes i expect rude-ness from forum members...
anyways I honesstly gave up looking...
my findings are here...make of them what you wish. |
I was more or less grumbling to myself for not posting a link earlier when I said something about water and chaos. I aint lookin' no more either. This clue stuff is too much work with no pay off for me. I pretty much already knew about the Egypt/water/chaos/Nun thing, though not in much detail. So, if anyone wants to check out that link and expound upon it, be my guest. That's why it's there.
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iamcool
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 5981
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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spacie i was jus wondering wheres jj? i havent herd from him 4 a while
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my name is josh, not iamcool or iam or cool
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spaciegirlreturn
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 2767
Location: Jupiter
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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I think he may have finally gotten super pissed at this whole thing and left forever. I haven't heard from him either. I miss him. Now I have no real friends here..not like him. He was the best. *a moment of silence, please*
edit- he was even like my real life friends how I hated him at first. I always hate my best friends before I ever like them.
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Me and my key...same as it ever was.
Last edited by spaciegirlreturn on Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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iamcool
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 5981
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| spaciegirl wrote: | | I think he may have finally gotten super pissed at this whole thing and left forever. I haven't heard from him either. I miss him. Now I have no real friends here..not like him. He was the best. *a moment of silence, please* |
yer i no he was reeely funny, i'll be ur frend  lol
_________________
my name is josh, not iamcool or iam or cool
cooltron5000 is also accepted
My lawyers told me to edit the content of this signature so i didn't get sued
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El.Rubber.Ducky
Casual Observer
Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 44
Location: le disko
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Um, I dont want to be rude either, but then how does he take a shower if he's afraid of water? |
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spaciegirlreturn
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 2767
Location: Jupiter
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe that's why he stinks
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Killthesmiley
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4732
Location: Halifax NS Canada
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| El.Rubber.Ducky wrote: | | Um, I dont want to be rude either, but then how does he take a shower if he's afraid of water? |
I doubt he is that scared of water...
i don't think he is even scared of water, i'm just thinking there is a point to him not being shown in the water
_________________
kelly
YOU: Who does that KTS think she is? Total bitch!
ME: I think I'm you, only better.
~Kelly, KMurr, and Kellylen <3~ |
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