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Lonelygirl15
Forum to post messages about Bree and Danielbeast
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watchingall
Lonely Fan
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 169
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 Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Lord Balto wrote: |
I'm not surprised that the Illuminati alphabet would be replaced by the Enochian alphabet, which is much better known. I'm not sure I buy the Jehovah's Witnesses-Illuminati connection, but I know very little about the organization. The one JW I ever talked to about religion didn't know there was more than one "Pharaoh." He also had some funny idea that JC was crucified on a tree. He certainly didn't seem to be a Satan worshipper. Again, the Egyptian references in the plot would indicate to me a masonic-Crowleyite connection, as does the term "order" (as in Order of the Golden Dawn), as well as the picture of Crowley himself. Bree never calls it a cult but Daniel obviously thinks it is. The Egyptian references also point toward masonic/Thelemite connections. As I have already suggested, the masons and all manner of, especially British, secret societies claim Egyptian origins, as the Roman Mithraics claimed Persian origin. It's an old game.
As for hypnosis, there is quite an extensive literature on its use to brainwash people. Long John Nebel, he of the long-running WOR all night radio show that predated all the modern shows on the strange and bizarre, wrote a book about his wife Candy Jones, who had been hypnotized by the CIA to perform certain acts and then had all memories removed: http://www.mysteriouspeople.com/Candy_Jones.htm
This sort of thing certainly goes on, but I would caution against trying to read too much into what is still a fictional account. It all comes down to what the writers want us to believe rather than what is "true" in some abstract sense, if they have even thought this all through to the point where they even know what they want us to believe.
The box paragraph arose from a fairly extensive alignment of Hebrew, Egyptian, and Assyrian chronologies ( http://neros.lordbalto.com/Contents.htm ) I've been working on, when I finally got it through my thick head that Noah (Menes) and Yahweh (Zeus) filled the same position in the antediluvian kinglists. The box represents the sky, the animals in the ark and around the manger being the signs of the zodiac. The chessboard arose from this system, as did the tarot. The Zodiac of Denderah fits somewhere here too, though I'm not sure where.
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I grew up with a JW and we used to get into huge arguments over the cross/tree thing. I was little, i didnt realize how useless religion arguments were at the time.
I didnt realize that was a widespread belief, I just thought he was a little weird.
As for the JW/Illuminati connection, people at lower levels of cults and secret societies rarely know whats going on at the upper echelons.
I do believe the creators have said it is definitely NOT Themlema. If Im wrong I hope someone corrects me.
I brought up the brainwashing thing because its been discussed several times. trainer (i think?) is one who is very strongly behind that. or was at one point at any rate.
THanks for that link, it looks like a mind number this early in the morning but im bookmarking it! |
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watchingall
Lonely Fan
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Nieriel.Manwathiel wrote: |
just saying just cause it's unusual doesn't mean it should be discounted as good plot info. |
Unusual usually makes the BEST plot! 
I havent seen you around much if at all, so welcome to the discussion! |
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Lord Balto
Casual Observer
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 99
Location: Balmer, Merlin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Watchingall wrote:
I grew up with a JW and we used to get into huge arguments over the cross/tree thing. I was little, i didnt realize how useless religion arguments were at the time.
I didnt realize that was a widespread belief, I just thought he was a little weird.
As for the JW/Illuminati connection, people at lower levels of cults and secret societies rarely know whats going on at the upper echelons. |
Indeed.
| Quote: | | I do believe the creators have said it is definitely NOT Thelema. If Im wrong I hope someone corrects me. |
I have seen this before but I've not seen a reference for it. I doubt very much they'd use Thelema directly, but it could certainly be a Thelema-LIKE organization.
| Quote: | | I brought up the brainwashing thing because its been discussed several times. trainer (i think?) is one who is very strongly behind that. or was at one point at any rate. |
There is always the question of indoctrination and hypnosis in all cults, as well as some branches of more mainstream religions. The whole tension between Bree and Daniel seems to revolve around the indoctrination issue. I just hope they don't have Daniel try to convert her to some mainstream religion!
| Quote: | | THanks for that link, it looks like a mind number this early in the morning but im bookmarking it! |
I read the Nebel book from the library a long time ago. Now Long John may have done a show that occasionally featured a troupe of world class flakos, but the man himself was quite hard headed. So if he says his wife was hypnotized by the CIA, she probably was.
What really bothers me about the story line is the reaction of the characters to the "injections" Bree was receiving. As far as I know, this process doesn't show up in any cult or religion, though orally ingested drugs certainly play a part in some. This aspect just seems to have been "hung out there" in space without any attempt to wrap a rationale around it. Has anybody run into any kind of explanation of this? When I first ran into the whole LG15 thing, I figured the Oz references had to do with some kind of Bushman initiation gone awry, and the injections were meant to produce some kind of artificial maturation. Now I don't have a clue, unless it's part of the whole brainwashing process. But then, why aren't Daniel and Gemma screaming bloody murder about this obvious abuse of their friend? The psychologists would call this a lack of "affect" (pathological lack of emotion). Then again,
| Quote: | | Then after briefly describing the rest of the room Laver claims that he saw "a small box containing a hypodermic syringe" on the chest of drawers. |
from http://www.redflame93.com/Laver.html
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trainer101
Moderator Manager
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2671
Location: Wasting away again ILLUMINATIVILLE...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Warning: In the spirit of the storyline, the following contains a mix of historical, factual and pop-culture references. 
The Illuminati, Drugs and Mind Control
The science of Pharmacology has given the Illuminati programmers a vast array of mind-altering and body-altering drugs.
If one wants to create raving paranoia, simply provide the brain with too much dopamine in the emotional centers of the brain and too little dopamine in the seat of reasoning area of the brain.
Reduce serotonin in the person and the person will be unable to connect disagreeable consequences with what provoked them.
In other words, they can’t protect themselves from danger.
Thorazine was used regularly at Jonestown . Survivors of Jonestown have testified as to its effectiveness. After this gruesome experiment in mind control came to its end with a massacre, large amounts of drugs were discovered. Just one footlocker at Jonestown alone contained 11,000 doses.
Religious groups, shamans, medicine men, witches and cults have been using mind altering drugs throughout history. The medieval witches used potions of hemlock and aconite for their flying ointments. These are herbs (natural drugs) which will create delirium. Contemporary witnesses reported that covens during the medieval ages would apply the potion of hemlock and aconite to cause their new witch to go delirious, and then would transport the person to the Sabbat, where they would be told they flew there.
The Haitian satanic Vodoun cult, (which has been infiltrated and manipulated by the CIA/Illuminati), has sorcerers called bokors. The Vodoun cult in Haiti is being used for trauma-based mind control. One of the items of the cult is to take the plant Datura stramonium and add this plant with other things. The plant is the active ingredient of a potent psychoactive drug, the "zombi cucumber" which produces amnesia and a pseudo-death of the victim. The brain doesn’t die, but the mind is shut off. The victim is brought back to life as a zombie--a slave of the bokor. The powder to create a zombi is called zombificant in French-creole. The ceremonies to ‘kill’ and resurrect the zombie are full of magic and demonology also. Magic, drugs and demonology have always gone hand in hand.
I am familiar with a recent example here in Oregon of someone who escaped from being sacrificed at a Cult Ritual. The legal system told the woman she was crazy when she reported to the police that she had escaped from a Satanic Ritual where they were going to sacrifice her. To control her, the judge ordered 3 types of antipsychotics, twice the normal dose of two kinds of lithium carbonate to put her into a lethargic stupor, Paxil as an antidepressant, and Benztropine mesylate as an antiparkinsonian agent. The antipsychotics were Thiothixene, Thioridazine hydrochloride, and Perphenazine which are all addictive.
This clearly shows the type of mental control via drugs that could be slapped onto someone who dares report cult activity to an establishment which has been sadly corrupted from top to bottom.
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Ziola
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 5774
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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trainer101
Moderator Manager
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2671
Location: Wasting away again ILLUMINATIVILLE...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Ziola wrote: | |
Scary stuff, isn't it?
Good thing you're here for the comic relief! 
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Ziola
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 5774
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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Its the Muppet Show!!
With our very special guest...Ziola!
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trainer101
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2671
Location: Wasting away again ILLUMINATIVILLE...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Ziola wrote: | Its the Muppet Show!!
With our very special guest...Ziola!
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The Rockin' Dance Teacher!
crazy... they're all just plain crazy
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trainer101
Moderator Manager
Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2671
Location: Wasting away again ILLUMINATIVILLE...
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Well, it's after 3am and no one wants to come out and play so I guess I'm left to my own devices (which you know CANNOT be a good thing  )
Since a few people have asked if there's any significance to the 101 in my name, I figured now's as good a time as any to make a nice little post about it.
I could go off on a tangent with some BS like 101 is the 26th prime number and a palindromic prime. Because the period length of its reciprocal is unique among primes, 101 is a unique prime. 101 is the sum of five consecutive primes (13 + 17 + 19 + 23 + 29). And on, and on, and on...
Blech... That's no fun.
*****************************************************************************************
This is MUCH better...
"You asked me once," said O'Brien, "what was in Room 101. I told you that you know the answer already. Everybody knows. The thing in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world."
Room 101 is a torture chamber in which a prisoner is subjected to his or her own worst nightmare. Such is the omniscience of the state in the totalitarian society of Nineteen Eighty-Four that even a citizen's nightmares are known to the authorities. The nightmare — and therefore the threatened punishment — of the protagonist Winston Smith is to have his face gnawed by rats. Smith saves himself by begging the authorities to let his lover, Julia, have her face gnawed out by the ferocious rodents instead. The torture — and what Winston does to escape it—utterly crushes the feelings between himself and Julia, destroying their youthful idealism, their dreams for the future, and their feelings for each other. It should be noted that the book never suggests Julia is actually subjected to the rat torture (although it is strongly implied she was threatened with her own worst nightmare), and the original intent of threatening Winston with the rats probably was not actually to go through with the act, but to force him into betraying the only person he loved and therefore break his spirit.
More rambling delerium coming soon. Stay Gold!
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Lord Balto
Casual Observer
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 99
Location: Balmer, Merlin
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Warning: In the spirit of the storyline, the following contains a mix of historical, factual and pop-culture references. Very Happy
The Illuminati, Drugs and Mind Control |
This is pure speculation and you don't even bother to suggest where it might intersect the storyline. It looks more like you are creating your own little fictional world and just using LG15 as an excuse.
As for your last paragraph, sounds suspiciously like an urban legend. These things fall apart like a 100-year-old suit as soon as you shine a good light on them: Judges don't order prescription drugs; they wouldn't know what to order; there's a moral to the story--don't join a cult--and; I bet you can't give me one reference for this "story" that happened "locally."
And again, not one mention of a cult involving *injectable* drugs.
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Lord Balto
Casual Observer
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 99
Location: Balmer, Merlin
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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In fact, therapists are more likely to try to *convince* patients they have been members of a Satanic cult:
http://www.skeptictank.org/zavis.htm
A good 25% of the population is subject to remembering false incidents when hypnotized, and I have seen evidence that UFO abductions run much higher in this regard. Now in regards to LG, she has been continuously watched by Daniel, so there's no question of hypnotically induced false memories.
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Lord Balto
Casual Observer
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 99
Location: Balmer, Merlin
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Lord Balto
Casual Observer
Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 99
Location: Balmer, Merlin
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: |
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A good article on Xtian-related urban legends--both pro and contra:
http://www.new-life.net/myths.htm
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trainer101
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 2671
Location: Wasting away again ILLUMINATIVILLE...
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Lord Balto wrote: | | Quote: | Warning: In the spirit of the storyline, the following contains a mix of historical, factual and pop-culture references. Very Happy
The Illuminati, Drugs and Mind Control |
This is pure speculation and you don't even bother to suggest where it might intersect the storyline. It looks more like you are creating your own little fictional world and just using LG15 as an excuse.
As for your last paragraph, sounds suspiciously like an urban legend. These things fall apart like a 100-year-old suit as soon as you shine a good light on them: Judges don't order prescription drugs; they wouldn't know what to order; there's a moral to the story--don't join a cult--and; I bet you can't give me one reference for this "story" that happened "locally."
And again, not one mention of a cult involving *injectable* drugs. |
You completely missed the point. *sigh*
This was a response to speculation in various other threads. NOT meant to be a definitive answer or theory about the plot line. It's intended to give others a reference point from which they can draw there own conclussions as to whether or not any of these ideas fit into the (do I have to say it again?) FICTIONAL storyline - hence the tongue in cheek "Warning" at the top of the post. Why is it that everyone else seems to "get it"?
I'm not creating a world separate from the LG world. Go back and read through my other posts outside of this thread then read posts from the Creators. I have clearly stated that we are playing in their sandbox. They have stated that we are invited to do so - and that they use the ideas developed by the fans.
So, do you wanna play in the sand box or do you wanna throw sand?
EDIT: I really enjoy your research. Let's try tying the ideas you develop to the story.
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Last edited by trainer101 on Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rachelalexis
The Order of Denderah
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 4104
Location: Making a collage of Columbia and Magenta
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| Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Lord Balto wrote: | In fact, therapists are more likely to try to *convince* patients they have been members of a Satanic cult:
http://www.skeptictank.org/zavis.htm
A good 25% of the population is subject to remembering false incidents when hypnotized, and I have seen evidence that UFO abductions run much higher in this regard. Now in regards to LG, she has been continuously watched by Daniel, so there's no question of hypnotically induced false memories. |
Just a minor point, and probably not worth making (do I make any important posts?!) But the original post wasn't exactly about therapists deciding to chemically deaden their patients, and its main example was actually an anecdote (true or not) about a judge ordering drugs, not a therapist (which, I agree, the idea of a judge being capable of ordering specific drugs is highly suspect to me, but maybe it's just because I'm slightly idealistic and don't know enough about the big scary world out there )
Sorry, pet peeve whenever therapy or therapists are brought up, I feel the need to defend the profession I'm getting into 
P.S. don't get me started on the whole "psychological drugs are more often prescribed by the person's general practice doctor" thing 
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