Template talk:Init

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Examples

{{Init|Bree}} = LG

{{Init|Daniel}} = DB

{{Init|Jonas}} = JTKO

{{Init|Gemma}} = G19

{{Init|OpAphid}} = [Op]

{{Init|Tachyon}} = TAC

{{Init|Brother}} = BRO

{{Init|Nikki Bower}} = NBR

{{Init|the Order}} = ORD

{{Init|Taylor}} = SocSkyblueStar.png

{{Init|Jules}} = CMJ

{{Init|Cassieiswatching}} = CiW

{{Init|Sarah}} = SIE

{{Init|Spencer}} = LALR

{{Init|War Pylol}} = War

{{Init|Alex}} = TCC

{{Init|Kate}} = A

{{Init|Charlie}} = COT

{{Init|Gavin}} = DG

{{Init|Tariq}} = T287

{{Init|The Creators}} = CRE

{{Init|TAAG}} = TAAG

{{Init|Claire}} = Я!

{{Init|Steve}} = SB

{{Init|Hymn of One}} = HoO

{{Init|Sophie}} = MKM

{{Init|Jamie Bell}} = HF

{{Init|Emma}} = E07

{{Init|Mallory}} = MAL

{{Init|anything else}} = ???????

The Order

I tried putting {{Init|The Order}} on the Main Page entry for Subjects Apprehended, but it wasn't working correctly. I'm not sure what could be wrong. Would you mind checking that out, Jay?
OwenIsCool 01:00, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

OH, ugh... it's case sensitive. --JayHenry 08:27, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
wow, that was simple. I should have looked to see how it was typed in on the working example. Thanks for fixing it. OwenIsCool 08:55, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Apologies

Thanks for getting that right, Jay. I guess I should know what I'm doing before I change a template on the Main Page. Luckily, I noticed it within about a minute and no real harm done. I actually think I had it pretty much right--just forget the "}}" for the if.--Jonpro 08:49, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

No worries at all. This template was really poorly designed because when I made it I didn't know about the #switch function. I've rewritten the template to use #switch and it's now very easy to add new people to the template. --JayHenry 13:57, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

OTS

Misty, I assume you got "OTS" from the whiteboard in About The Gun, but do we even know what it means yet? Why do you think it should be used here instead of "ORD"?--Jonpro 18:56, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

Actually I thought for a long time that it should be OTS, because thats how the videos identify themselves "Transmission OTS - 0135 - 09 ", so I figured that OTS was trhe identifier for the subdivision of the order who transmitted the videos, when it showed up on the whiteboard that confirmed to me that I was right. And from later videos we could see that these videos were not made by someone representing the mainstream of the order, or else they wouldn't have been killed by the watchers for violating Bree's free will. -misty 19:24, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
Okay, thanks for explaining. I hadn't noticed the "Transmission OTS" thing in the descriptions.--Jonpro 19:28, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
OTS can stand for many many things, and we have not been told what OTS means in this context. One of the suggestions on the comment boards is that it means "On The Scene" since that is some kind of military slang. It could also stand for Ordo Templis Satanis (if you can believe the internet, anyway). Here's a list of other meanings OTS could have (link)--I'm not saying they all apply, but just to give you an idea. The creators stated at the forum that the videos were posted by the order and made no further statements as to what they might be calling themselves. I think OTS at this point is vague enough that we shouldn't be jumping to the conclusion that this is what the Order calls itself. Transmission On The Scene, actually sounds very viable to me. Having said that, I'm going to change it back to Order, with the request that this not be changed again until we know with certainty that is should be something else. Although ORD not as accurate as I would like (I'd like to know what branch we're talking about, for instance), it's at least not inaccurate. OwenIsCool 14:15, 23 April 2007 (CDT)

Taylor

Well, I guess we need to add Taylor to our init template. Should she be Tay or maybe Soc★? --JayHenry 20:40, 16 May 2007 (CDT) My vote is for "Soc★", since it's the best abrev. for soccerstar. For some reason Zoey keeps removing the ★ without any explanation. Soc★ is what JayHenry Proposed and no one voiced an objection, so I think that we should keep it that way until there is some evidence to show a concensus for removing the ★. -misty 01:47, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

I enjoy having the star. Although the only reason I made the decision so quickly was because the main page templates don't work correctly without something in the init template, so I'm definitely open to discussion. I wonder if there's a browser problem. On an older browser the star might not display or display as something completely different? I thought it was a symbol that anyone could display. Zoey, are you seeing a five-point star after the letters "Soc" or something different? --JayHenry 10:20, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
Heh, I didn't even know that it was a symbol. No, it's just displaying as a box to me. Like that. Although.. now I'm not sure how that box will display on YOUR screens. But yes, it just looks like a box to me. --Zoey 10:29, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
That's what i was afraid of... darn, the star is so cool! Let me see if there are other star symbols we can try. (btw, your box displayed as a question mark for me). --JayHenry 10:35, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
From Stars: Here are a handful of star symbols -- * ٭ ★✶✴ ⋆ ★ ☆ . Do any of them work in an older browser? --JayHenry 10:39, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
The first two display for me, the others are boxes. --Zoey 10:41, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
Soc٭ or Soc*? Hmm... I'm just not sure if everyone is going to get that it's a star with those symbols. Any other ideas?? It might be possible to upload a really small star image. I remember experimenting with a similar idea once and it cause problems, but I know a lot more about wikitext now. --JayHenry 10:49, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

Hrm, well we do have this Star.gif. Which is an image... --Zoey 10:51, 17 May 2007 (CDT)

We could reupload a green one? Or do we think that either of the asterisks is good enough? --JayHenry 15:12, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
I say reupload a green one where the bottom isn't cut off, and that way every browser sees it, and it's not a tiny asterisk. 72.77.92.54 15:20, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
I temporarily changed it to one of the asterisks. Once we get a working green star image, let's switch to that. --JayHenry 17:46, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
Um... I see the star now, FYI. ~ Jbshryne 00:38, 18 May 2007 (CDT)
I uploaded a star image and changed the template to use it everyone should see it now -misty 18:31, 23 May 2007 (CDT)

If your Browser supports UTF-8 encoding (which includes every Mac browser, every Gecko Browser for any platform and from what Chelseyrl said IE), then you can see all the stars. if you can't see it in any of those Browsers then you have disabled encoding detection, and set the encoding to something other than UTF-8. If you want to accomodate everyone who did that you need to use the standard asterisk (shift-8). -misty 02:07, 18 May 2007 (CDT)

OK I found out why some people are getting boxes and others are getting stars. Apparently windows doesn't have a complete unicode font that comes with it, but MS Office does. So if you have Office installed you will have Arial MS Unicode, which has all the stars. If you don't have office you need to download a unicode font. One that I know of is Code2000 -misty 01:30, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

Color Match

I think te colors here should match the colors for the character page. Daniel should be MidnightBlue, Taylor should be SkyBlue. if no one objects I'm going to make that change tomarrow morning -misty 21:44, 16 May 2007 (CDT)

Strong support. Oh yes, color match! :) I'm in <3 with organization. Misty, you rock. 72.77.92.54 15:19, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
I think they should match, but Taylor should be green on both initials and her character box because it's the color of her YouTube channel.[1] --JayHenry 15:25, 17 May 2007 (CDT)
Well none of the other characters match their YouTube channel, and green already is Owen's color. I'll wait till we have consensus to make the change -misty 02:50, 18 May 2007 (CDT)
Okay, I vote yes to change the color boxes to match their profiles. But if the initials for the characters get changed, I might get upset. I know Op is all matching, but she has an AphidPerson template, not a Person template. Any thoughts on not using AphidPerson anymore? Person is looking way better, I must say. silverX3 08:59, 19 May 2007 (CDT)


it seems that everyone who's spoken up wants the init colors to match the profile colors. I'm setting the colors to match the profiles and changing the profile colors for the aphid characters to make them unique -misty 20:47, 2 June 2007 (CDT)

Made Jules init

I made an init for Jules as well. silverX3 10:54, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

Hm, I was thinking that CMJ24 was a bit long. Maybe it would look better as Jul? Or J24? Or something. I don't know, I'm not personally crazy about it now, although I do like the use of colors! What do people think? (EDIT: Or how about just CMJ? I actually think that would look best...) --Zoey 20:32, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
Well, I went for CMJ24 to make the colors more differentiated from LG. Pink and pink makes it well... too pink. I made the "24" small like the "TKO" in JTKO so that it's not too long. The options - CMJ24, CMJ24, CMJ, J24, JUL, JUL24, JUL, JULA (for Andersen), or CMJ. I personally lean toward CMJ24. What about you? silverX3 15:45, 6 June 2007 (CDT)
I like CMJ because it sticks to her username, but cuts out the numbers, which we did do with others (like Bree). It keeps it from looking too long, which was my main concern with CMJ24. I agree that it's too pink though... maybe we should pick another color for her profile/her initials? --Zoey 12:58, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
I noticed that we had no red initials, so I made it red. But then I saw that Jules's person box on her page was HotPink. And that made it a little bit too similar to Bree, in my opinion. So, maybe we should change the profile box and the initials to red? silverX3 14:00, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
Red for both sounds good. I can go ahead and do that if there are no objections... --Zoey 18:43, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
I'm happy with any change that'll put some 'color distance' between Bree's and Jules' initials. --Pheon 19:06, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
We already agreed that we should use the same color for a character everywhere, so if you want jules to be red, you can't just do it here and on the profile, you also need to do it on the actor's page, and the list of characters page. This means, we then would have to change Color for Alex since Red is Already Alex's Color, and we have established a unique color for each characters on the list of characters page. I suggest that we have decide on the official color for each actor/character, and only allow changes when they don't conflict with another character's color and when there is a reason for the change it. Since when making the change from hotpink to red for Jules, it wasn't made everywhere, and since we haven't decided on a new color for Alex, I'm temporarily changing it back to HotPink until we establish, official colors. -misty 06:11, 2 July 2007 (CDT)

Made CiW init

I just made an init for Cassieiswatching. silverX3 11:07, 20 May 2007 (CDT)

Sarah

Hm, I'm not sure about the SkyIE for Sarah. It's kind of misleading. And it is not the name of her Youtube or anything, just her Myspace. Maybe we'd be better keeping it "Sar" for now? I think it would be clearer to people. Because I'm definately not the only one who was confused. Thoughts please?? :) --Zoey 20:36, 31 May 2007 (CDT)

I really liked SkyIE - Like someone said, its consistant with the other V-Bloggers in that their initials are abbreviations of their Usernames. That, and it shows that we pay attention to this kind of thing. Besides, maybe the creators have a future Revver/YouTube account ready to be activated soon with a similar name. --Pheon 21:25, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
On a further note, if people are confused, they can simply click on the Initial Tag . . . and then they'll know why SkyIE is so. At least for now . . . . --Pheon 21:47, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
Just popping in for a bit. I think the use of Sarah's screenname as the Init is consistent, but I don't like SkyIE. When I saw it the first time I thought "hey maybe this is some weird error message because I'm using Internet Explorer?". I know, weird. Still, SkyIE just doesn't have the same catchiness as LG, DB, Jtko or even G19. Perhaps just Sky would be better? And maybe in black? Sarah would want it in black, I think.  ;)
OwenIsCool 22:45, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
Okidokes, here's what I had in mind. It looks a little plain on here, but if you put it in the Main Page and preview, it looks nice and Sarah-ish. We can leave out the IE, it's not crucial. Even LG15 became LG in the Init template. All righty, take it away!
OwenIsCool 22:56, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
 ::thumbs up:: ~ Jbshryne 22:58, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
Yay, OiC lives! Good to hear from you and I hope you're doing well on your travels. And I like the black "Sky". It does look very Sarah-ish.--Jonpro 23:03, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
I'm fine with Sky, and I definitely think Sarah would prefer Black! --Pheon 23:16, 31 May 2007 (CDT)
Sky is great. But I am not sure about black. Main page has lots of black bold stuff. One more piece of black text just wouldn't catch the eye like LG or Jtko do. Dark red maybe?
Sky by itself doesn't have the right feel for Sarah, what about SIE? I had my doubts about SkyIE, and almost changed it to SIE right away. If we Use SAR then we are ignoring the convention we have been using all along, and you know how crazy I get about inconsistency -misty 23:33, 1 June 2007 (CDT)
Maybe SIE, but with the IE notably smaller? That way people unfamiliar with "SkyisEmpty" see a BIG 'S' for Sarah, but we still have the smaller capital letters "IE" to remain consistant. Oy, did that even make sense?? --Pheon 00:09, 2 June 2007 (CDT)
Hm, I kinda like that idea.. :) --Zoey 19:06, 2 June 2007 (CDT)

Warpylol

I'm not sure how to make these things. could someone make a Warpylol one? --FH14 20:07, 29 June 2007 (EST)

I created one (War), the color needs to be changed though. I just wanted to get it up. --Zoey 20:55, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Spencer

I created a Spencer template (LALR) because I figure we should be expecting a blog from him soon. We need color suggestions though, any thoughts? --Zoey 20:55, 29 June 2007 (CDT)

Okay, so based on precedence, we prefer an initial of the character's username, but something that's also easily recognizable and simple. So right now, I think LALR is just a tad too 'complex' for lack of a better word. Perhaps "Lab Rat" in all caps, and with RAT considerably smaller? As for color, how about gray? Keep in mind that I'm less attached to my color suggestion than my initial suggestion . . . . --Pheon 22:32, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
EDIT - Hold on, I just realized that LABrat isn't too much of an initial is it? So perhaps LRAT, with the RAT reasonably smaller? --Pheon 22:34, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
I did LALR because of LAlabrat which is his Youtube/Myspace screen name. LA (for LA) LR (for Lab Rat)... I changed the color to lime to match with his "Favorite color"... how's it look? --Zoey 17:10, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

Lonelydude15

The lonelydude15 parody series blogger needs an init. It could be like an LD with a green or blue color.

unofficial blogs don't use template:init, I removed the buggy usage from the lonleydude15 video pages -misty 01:53, 10 July 2007 (CDT)
If unofficial blogs do not use Template:Init, then why is there initials for Paulmark18? The Creators haven't told us that they're canon, have they? God, I hope not. They're horrible actors.   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 13:20, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

24?

I think we should add a 24 on the end of Jules init because her username IS sort of CallMeJule24. Even though her account is probably inactive, it will clean things up a bit. What do you think? Love, -R- 01:23, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

Please read previous discussions before suggestion new ideas. Template_talk:Init#Made_Jules_init decided that we were going to leave the 24 out. Thanks. --Zoey 02:11, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

KateModern characters

the characters of katemodern should have inits so i tried to make some but they all got deleted

I imagine that's because its still a little early right now. Initials are created knowing both the username of the character (the lettering) as well as their personality (usually an influence of color, like Sarah's). Let a few videos air, I'm sure we'll be needing them then. --Pheon 22:32, 10 July 2007 (CDT)

HoO

I think we should add a initial for the HoO. Love, -R- 01:17, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Seeing as how we haven't had any videos that have been credited "Hymn of One" as the vlogger, I'd say this isn't necessary yet. So far, every HoO video is actually credited with "Bree" on the video itself, and that is the info we use to determine who the blogger is. --Zoey 01:31, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
Right. Considering HoO as the blogger may be credited later as a HoO video on account of Bree not really making, editing, writing, posting, or really doing anything with the blogs. She just reads what TCC tells her too, but I guess this isn't top priority right now. Love, -R- 01:38, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
We actually had some questions about who was posting what a while ago, and to solve it definitively, the Creators started "signing" the blogs so we know who officially posted them. If we ever get a blog crediting the HoO, or the Creators ever go back and recredit some of the old blogs, I would see a need for a HoO initial, however right now, I do not think it is necessary. --Zoey 01:43, 15 July 2007 (CDT)
So after the latest vid, we may have to come up with a HoO sig, or maybe just a Carl and/or Sonia sig(s). Thoughts? --Pheon 19:19, 14 August 2007 (CDT)
I agree Babygurl1853
Yeah, you see, NOW we need a HoO initial! You know what would be good? HoO! Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [Aug. 14, 07 - 8:07 PM, Central Daylight]
Got one: HoO User:-R /SignatureD

Kate

When we do an init for Kate, I think it should be AH for abstract heart, and the two letters should be different colors because she is an artist.--Houdini(talk | contribs)

Here i made it. What do you think?A--Houdini (talk | contribs)

I made the templates for the other characters, but kept them all red, at least for now. Possibly later, once we know the characters better, we can switch them, but for right now, I actually think it looks kind of nice and consistant to keep the color that same "main" KM red color. --Zoey 23:31, 15 July 2007 (CDT)

Since we already know though that Kate is colorful shouldn't we just do what i did. The two colors.

No, we really don't know much about Kate at this point, as she hasn't even posted any video blogs! For all we know, she'll come out tommorow saying her favorite color in the world is purple! I'm just saying, wait a little bit. And honestly, I think it looks nice and consistant, for the moment, to keep them all the red color to match the rest of the KM stuff. --Zoey 02:05, 16 July 2007 (CDT)
I think the initial should be something like this: Abst, or something shorter like Ab or just A
While I like the current AH initial, I do like the "A(Heart)" design: Maybe if the letter 'A' and heart were the same size? --Pheon 08:03, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

I have a problem when viewing the initial. I'm not sure if it's because of Internet Explorer 6, or if it's because of my screen resolution/width - or maybe because of Windows XP? I was over my grandma's house yesterday (she has Windows Vista) and it wasn't acting up. Anyways, on my computer, the heart doesn't look like a heart. It looks like... well, it just looks like an upside-down teardrop. Maybe you should get a picture of a heart and use it, just like we got a picture of a star for Taylor?   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 13:09, 19 July 2007 (CDT)

I'm currently using IE 6 and Windows XP, and it looks like a heart to me. I do however, feel that the heart IS too small -- it needs to be closer to the size of the "A".--Pheon 13:19, 19 July 2007 (CDT)
Well, Pheon, I'm not sure... maybe it's because my computer at home has a smaller width than yours. But about the size, I'm pretty sure that I would prefer it to be smaller than the "A." It looks better than that. It wouldn't bother me if it wasn't fixed, as I am getting a new (Vista, IE 7, 17" monitor) computer tomorrow, because I just built a fence. :) So, I wouldn't mind if it wasn't fixed, but I do think that for all the people that it looks like an upside-down teardrop to... well, on my home computer, the two lumps at the top of the heart are missing. The hole in between them is just filled in, so it looks like... not a heart. Just my opinion.   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 12:21, 21 July 2007 (CDT)

Gavin

According to his bebo layout (plus the code on the banner), it looks as if the color for Gavin should be #0066ccfor a dark and #9cbeef for a light. Love, -R- 00:18, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Okay please allow me to reiterate, and hopefully for the last time. At the moment, all the KM characters will be red. I have listed my reasons why this will be. First off, we do NOT know the personalities of the characters until we have actually seen them in a few vidoes. And secondly, I'm not 100% sure that we're even going to have character colors, because I am really liking them all being red. It kind of creates a consitancy and uniformity... like an identity for the show. At this point, I really do think it's the right way to go. At least for NOW. --Zoey 01:02, 18 July 2007 (CDT)
zoey everyone else wants them to have colors
why don't you just let them get there wish
Houdini, Zoey's being rather decent on this: In the past we create the Initials based on their username AND Personality. As of 7/18/2007 (USA time), we've only has two videos from KATE, with only the slightest hint of her personality. And we can only guess/predict how Charlie, Gavin, and Tariq will be. We've already gotten the lettering for their initials down, so let's be patient when it comes to colors. Soon enough we'll get to know the cast enough to where worrying about this will actually matter. Just enjoy the show for the time being, man. --Pheon 22:56, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Adding Alex

So, I'm sure it's obvious that Proceed with Caution was a blog by Alex, as might have been Apology Accepted?. Alex doesn't have a username, so what will we do for her initials?   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 11:02, 24 July 2007 (CDT)

Should it be aunt not alex though because most of the inits are like that, without real names.

But this looks good.

Alex already has a username -- TCC, remember?? It's a pretty big revelation, so itstead of spoiling everyone of Alex's return, why not just use her own alias?? --Pheon 18:15, 24 July 2007 (CDT)
I have to go with TCC. Love, 70.113.85.225 20:05, 25 July 2007 (CDT)
Oh, yeah, I forgot about TCC. Let's go with that.   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 20:27, 25 July 2007 (CDT)

Creators

Due to the fact the creators are messing with our heads by making a recap video from the point of Jonas, yet putting it in a weird view of things, the creators are just gonna be considered the blogger. I was thinking for an initial we could do: Create or Cre8 Nerdy, but its shorter. Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [10:40 PM, Central Daylight]

Actually, I like CREATE because its in all caps, but we can also do CRE ... I really don't know. We can just do ??????? for now.Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [10:45 PM, Central Daylight]
I like CRE; simple and direct. And I really think it should be up there. The "rainbow of question marks" kind of annoys me. ~ JBSHRYNE 09:17, 2 August 2007 (CDT)

Carla??

Speak to Me!, IMO, is undoubtedly a blog by Carla (see the talk page). Unfortunately, we know so little about her that's it's near impossible to come up with an appropriate signature. Thoughts? ~ JBSHRYNE 21:43, 8 August 2007 (CDT)

I do beleive it's a Carla blog as well (the Description is evidence enough), but I would personally like to see another Carla vid OR EVEN the next vid Jonas is in because then we may have more evidence on what happened. Again, I do beleive it's a Carla vid but let's wait before we do anything. --Pheon 00:37, 9 August 2007 (CDT)
Well, Carla is extremely annoying. Whats an extremely annoying color? Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [4:43 PM, Central Daylight]
BRIIIIIGHT green is exremely annoying because it makes me go blind!   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 15:46, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
OMGCARLA!!! :D Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [3:53 PM, Central Daylight]
OMGHII'MCARLA!!! :-D   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 15:57, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
:D WTFI'MRLAANDTHISISANANNOYINGINITIAL!!! Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [4:01 PM, Central Daylight]
Randy, you've done it! We simply need to go with that! :D   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 16:10, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
Carla still needs an initial, I guess we've just been kind of lazy. :/ How about C-la (pronounced See Luh), just to separate her from Carl if you did the initial CRL. 72.95.224.117 15:11, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

LaRezisto

Okay, so clearly, this guy came with his own signature/logo, so I'm gonna go ahead and make it. ~ JBSHRYNE 12:39, 10 August 2007 (CDT)

Hmmm... the R! thing is cool (it makes me feel special) but I was thinking it could be like LAREZ I dunno, I like it. The only problem with this is everything is gonna look like LALR if we actually do it by the username, so never mind. Keep the R!, but I was thinking maybe we can make the color change between the characters not so drastic 0.o Ah, whatever. Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [3:32 PM, Central Daylight]
I like R! too, considering LaRezisto is basically screaming RESISTANCE!, and in the background is, undoubtedly, "R!".   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 15:58, 10 August 2007 (CDT)
I agree with you, Randy, the color change was a bit drastic. I changed it from LimeGreen, to the ForestGreen that you used in your comment. I think it looks better now. ~ JBSHRYNE

Guess what I ffffoooouuuunnnddd!?!?! ЯЯЯЯЯЯЯ <<<A BACKWARDS R! Heck yes! I'll work it in if there are no objections :D Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [10:59 PM, Central Daylight]

You know what??? I looked for it, too, but I couldn't find it. AWESOME. :-> ~ JBSHRYNE 00:07, 11 August 2007 (CDT)

"SteveBelieves"

Well, I guess we'll be needing an Initial for Mr. Steve now . . . I'll suggest "SB" for starters --Pheon 14:13, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

Sve could work, or Stv.
I like "SB", like SB << that color reminds me of a creepy ghost... like steve... creeeeeeeepy Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [Aug. 14, 2007 - 2:44 PM, Central Daylight]
I think for now we should stick with that maroon-y color for KM characters, but I like SB. I'll create it now, so we have something, post here if you object though for further discussion. --Zoey 15:44, 14 August 2007 (CDT)

And Now Emma . . . .

So yeah, the latest vid means we need an Init for Emma now. Any thoughts?? She doesn't got a username of her own, does she?? --Pheon 21:28, 12 September 2007 (CDT)
It would appear that she's going to be using Bree's Account. I say for the time being we use an Init. that Says "EMMA". She's probably going to get a myspace at some point, so then we can make an initial for her myspace username like we did with Sarah. If worse comes to worse, we can make a blue version of Bree's Init. --FH14 11:24, 13 September 2007 (EST)
Emma has a Forum Username - Emma07. Maybe the Init Could be E07? --FH14 13:11, 13 September 2007 (EST)
I think most vids are using "Bree's Account" these days, because seperate accounts failed to gain enough viewership on YouTube.
That said, I like the E07 idea, and propose E07 as a mix of both Jonas's and Bree's colors. (Because she replaces Bree and is related to Jonas.)
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 12:25, 13 September 2007 (CDT)
I like the idea, though the pink 07 combined with the lighter Color of E is kinda makes me dizzy. (I know, I'm a wimp). Maybe E07 instead? --FH14 13:29, 13 September 2007
I like the other way round a slight bit better, but it's not that big of a difference. Let's hear what the others say...
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 12:33, 13 September 2007 (CDT)
Ooo, tough choice, but though I liked pink 'E' oranger '07' at first, the signifigance of the colors works better if it's oranger 'E' pink '07', at least IMO. Don't let me be the deciding voter though --Pheon 13:56, 13 September 2007 (CDT)
I have to say I liked the first one for Emma. But it doesn't matter, as long as it keeps that color combination/letter combination. I love the pink/orange E07. I didn't even know Emma had a forum account, I'll have to check it out. 72.95.224.117 15:06, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

Argh, personally, I dislike the two colors. I think we need to pick a color and stick with it, so we can get her page and her actor page and all that to match. lightseagreen maybe? E07 --Zoey 15:25, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

True, I had forgotten about the character pages. I have no problem with using E07 --FH14 17:27, 13 September 2007 (EST)
Yeah...lightseagreen...'cause it's so fresh...and different...G19 E07 SocSkyblueStar.png TAC
Bree isn't active anymore, and Emma is filling her slot anyway...there's nothing wrong with using pink for Emma's borders. ::Especially since they'll always be divided in listings b/c Bree isn't exactly among the living anymore.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 16:41, 13 September 2007 (CDT)
Is just regular blue an option? I don't believe that's being used... E07 It looks different enough from G19 SocSkyblueStar.png TAC --FH14 17:56, 13 September 2007 (EST)

Aw, I still like lightseagreen. It seems different enough. I mean, every color we use is going to be some form of ROY G BIV, so obviously the more characters we have the more similar the colors will be. lightseagreen is.. brighter and greener than any of the others you listed. I am strongly opposed to Emma taking Bree's color though. It's just... not right! --Zoey 17:54, 13 September 2007 (CDT)

I'm fine with one color but I'm just curious, is there any color possibility that's close to orange/pink?? If not, then I guess I'm good with the blue. --Pheon 18:54, 13 September 2007 (CDT)
My vote is for the blue... that says Emma to me somehow. I'm also opposed to her having two colors, and VERY opposed to her taking Bree's color. Just... no. ~ JBSHRYNE 00:18, 14 September 2007 (CDT)
I just aw that Emma just got the regular blue E07. Since when was there a concensus for that? Only three people voted for that. Other people (like myself) liked orange/pink or lightseagreen. When you do regular blue, it's just... so plain and it hurts my eyes! 72.95.224.117 10:20, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
No, there was no true consensus reached. As you can see in the history, I left it up for further debate. Personally, my eyes are hurt by the 80 different-colored question marks, especially when they're there for more than a day or two.  :-/ I'll admit that now that the blue E07 is up there, however, it does look rather plain... of the other two options, I'd strongly lean towards the lightseagreen. ~ JBSHRYNE 16:46, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
Plain blue sucks. Even if you don't agree with me color-wise, you should after realizing that any other working, unvisited link in bold looks just the same. Yay for the individual touch. E07 ftw.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 17:14, 15 September 2007 (CDT)
I vote for the sea green, I think it fits better to Emma than the plain blue.----Bree is awesome 00:02, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

At this point, by my count, it's 3 for orange/pink, and 4 for lightseagreen. I'll reemphasize a point someone brought up earlier against using the orange/pink: The precedent we've set on this wiki is for each character/actor to be associated with a certain color, on their own pages and signature. Yes? That would be impossible to maintain with the orange/pink signature. Additionally, I just don't think it looks very good, or suits Emma's character. ~ JBSHRYNE 00:30, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

Err...I don't think the counting thing is fair or important - we had a clear majority for orange/pink, and then Zoey pulled the head admin card and said Emma would never ever get pink, no matter what. And then people started voting for light sea green, because it's still better than plain blue. Don't feign democracy where there is none.
I still don't see any connection between light sea green and Emma, and don't think it's a particularly "pretty" color, either.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 07:57, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
And for the record: Your precedent is an illusion. All KM characters use KM red, and Toby, Carla and Jonas's parents all use the same grey as well.
And it's not like anyone would recognize characters "by theme" here anyway. It's a nice little plaything, and nothing more. It adds color to the pages - that's it. It has no practical application.

This is quickly turning into a heated argument. At this point, I'm starting to wonder if a consensus will ever be reached where everyone is satisfied with the result. (i.e. orange/pink creates organization problems, lightseagreen looks to simular to Taylor, Gemma, and Tachyon's colors, Blue is too plain.) I was the one who made Toby, Carla, and Jonas's parents have grey because when I updated them to the supporting character's section, I couldn't think of any other colors that haven't already been taken. It might be a good idea to set all the characters without a blog to grey (Lucy, Carl, Sonia, Barb) so that we have more colors available. That leaves open the possibilities of E07 E07 E07 and E07 -- FH14 13:05, 16 September 2007 (EST)

I think your instinct is a good one, FH14. This is quickly turning from discussion to argument. Of your choices, I like the 'indigo.' If, Renegade, you feel very strongly about Emma's character "replacing" Bree (which, honestly, I'm still not convinced that she's doing, 'cause I'm still not convinced that Bree's dead :-> ), then we can go with the "plum," a more similar color to Bree's. I'd be fine with either. ~ JBSHRYNE 15:10, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
Even though I really don't like the orange, that'd be fine, too, as you say, it'd be related to Jonas. ~ JBSHRYNE 15:17, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

NO to two colors! If you don't like lightseagreen, please pick another solid, single color that hasn't been used else where for ANY other character (including Bree x_x) and suggest it here! You're the only one who seems to have a big problem with that color, so by all means, suggest an alternative that fits those "guidelines"! --Zoey 15:23, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

See? I'm not the difficult one here :P
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 16:17, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

Zoey, Renegade, please calm down! Zoey, I think we've established that we're only using one color. How about we use plum. It's simular to Bree's and seems fitting? (BTW, sorry if I seem harsh, I just want everyone to stop fighting *cries*) --FH14 18:23, 16 September 2007 (EST)

I'm perfectly fine with plum. ~ JBSHRYNE 17:36, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
You ain't seen me uncalm yet ;)
We haven't established we're only using one color. Zoey has.
Plum is definitely better than light sea green, though.
EDIT: Forget it, Sonia's using plum. Wouldn't want to hurt her feelings now, would we?
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 17:52, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

Yes, well, Sonia doesn't blog, and part of FH14's suggestion to use plum was to switch all non-blogging characters to gray, which I completely agree with. So good, is everyone on here ok with plum and switching Lucy, Carl, Sonia, and Barb to gray? ~ JBSHRYNE 17:59, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

Oh, right..."Sonia doesn't blog" is a valid argument, but "Bree doesn't blog" is not.
wtf is this? If we want plum, we can just take it from Sonia, but if we want pink, we can't just take it from Bree?
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 18:06, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
Well, Sonia's NEVER posted a blog, where Bree HAS in the past. Sonia DOESN'T have a symbol, whereas Bree DOES. --FH14 19:28, 16 September 2007
Oh right, I forgot...only people with their own blog are recognized by their color...all others just have them for show.
Seriously guys, get your story straight - either a character is recognized by his or her color, and it's important s/he keeps it, or it isn't.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 18:33, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
I know you were being sarcastic, but "only people with their own blog are recognized by their color...all others just have them for show" pretty much sums it up. Toby, Carla, and Jonas's parents function fine all having gray, because none of them have an associated symbol. Carl, Barb, Lucy, and Sonia do not have an associated symbol, just like TCJ'sP, and only have colors to fit a pattern set in the sections they're organized in with those that do. --FH14 19:44, 16 September 2007 (EST)
How often have you sat in front of any given object on the pedia and thought "Hey, it's pink! It's got to do something with Bree!"?
Guess the whole "one character, one color" thing isn't as important after all...*rolleyes*
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 19:43, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

We've started trying to argue two points here (what color Emma's sig should be AND is it important for non-blogging characters to have their own colors), and it doesn't look like either is going to get solved right now. Therefore, I propose we choose a color, that's similar to Bree's (which we seem to all be in some agreement upon) and that no other characters have currently. I have two suggestions to this end : PaleVioletRed E07 , or MediumVioletRed E07 . Can we possibly agree on one of these colors, so we can just decide on a signature and move on with our lives? ~ JBSHRYNE 18:47, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

Agreed. Either one is fine with me. --User:FH14 19:49, 16 September 2007 (EST)
CiW NBR E07 LG E07 CMJ
MediumVioletRed certainly is a beautiful color.
The "argumentation" making it necessary stays ridiculous, though.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 19:43, 16 September 2007 (CDT)
Well, however we got here, it looks like we've arrived. E07 seems to be the agreed-upon signature. Should we wait a little bit longer, or would someone like to do the honors? ~ JBSHRYNE 20:53, 16 September 2007 (CDT)

A future problem

I just converted this template to a wikicode/template based version, for easier editing, only to be greeted with a number of <!-- WARNING: template omitted, pre-expand include size too large --> errors, after about twenty instances of the template on a page. I took out the major code change, leaving only minor parts in, but at the end of the List of Videos, it still happened. I fully reverted for now, but this problem will re-occur at a point in the future.

Basically, as readable here and here, before rendering a page, the engine expands all templates on the page, checks the page size, and simply doesn't expand all template calls that push the page size over a certain limit.

Why is this important here? Because this template is giant. Don't believe me? What you write as {{init|Bree}} {{init|Daniel}} {{init|Jonas}} appears in the engine as...

{{#switch: Bree
| Bree         = [[Bree|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:DeepPink;">LG</span>]]
| Daniel       = [[Daniel|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:MidnightBlue;">DB</span>]]
| Jonas        = [[Jonas|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:DarkOrange;">J<span style="font-size:11px;">TKO</span></span>]]
| OpAphid      = [[OpAphid|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#627d6d;">[</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#627d6d;">Op</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:Green;">]</span>]]
| Gemma        = [[Gemma|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:CornflowerBlue;">G<span style="font-size:11px;">19</span></span>]]
| Tachyon      = [[Tachyon|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#B7D5B9;">T<span style="font-size:11px;">AC</span></span>]]
| Brother      = [[Brother|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#61B167;">B<span style="font-size:11px;">RO</span></span>]]
| Nikki Bower  = [[Nikki Bower|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:DarkViolet;">NBR</span>]]
| Paulmark18   = [[Paulmark18|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:SteelBlue;">P</span>&<span style="font-weight:bold;color:DeepPink;">A</span>]]
| Cassieiswatching = [[Cassieiswatching|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Indigo;">C<span style="font-size:11px;">i</span>W</span>]]
| the Order 
| The Order    = [[the Order|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Brown;">ORD</span>]]
| Jules        = [[Jules|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:LightSalmon;">CMJ</span>]]
| Sarah        = [[Sarah|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#976;">S<span style="font-size:11px;">IE</span></span>]]
| Taylor       = [[Taylor|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:skyBlue;">Soc]][[Image:SkyblueStar.jpg]]</span>
| Spencer      = [[Spencer|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:LimeGreen;">LA<span style="font-size:11px;">LR</span></span>]]
| War Pylol    = [[War Pylol|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Green;">W<span style="font-size:11px;">ar</span></span>]]
| Alex         = [[Alex|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:red;">T<span style="font-size:11px;">CC</span></span>]]
| Kate         = [[Kate|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">A<span style="font-size:11px;">♥</span></span>]]
| Charlie      = [[Charlie|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">C<span style="font-size:11px;">O</span>T</span>]]
| Gavin        = [[Gavin|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">DG</span>]]
| Tariq        = [[Tariq|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">T<span style="font-size:11px;">287</span></span>]]
| The Creators = [[The Creators|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Black;">C<span style="font-size:11px;">RE</span></span>]]
| 12in12       = [[12 in 12|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:RoyalBlue;">12</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:Black;font-size:11px">IN</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:Royalblue;">12</span>]]
| Claire       = [[Claire|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Black;">Я</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:ForestGreen;">!</span>]]
| Steve        = [[Steve|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">SB</span>]]
| Hymn of One  = [[Hymn of One|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:goldenrod">HoO</span>]]
| Sophie       = [[Sophie|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">Sophie</span>]]
| #default     = <span style="font-weight:bold;color:red;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:orange;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:yellow;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:green;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:blue;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:indigo;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:violet;">?</span>}}
{{#switch: Daniel
| Bree         = [[Bree|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:DeepPink;">LG</span>]]
| Daniel       = [[Daniel|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:MidnightBlue;">DB</span>]]
| Jonas        = [[Jonas|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:DarkOrange;">J<span style="font-size:11px;">TKO</span></span>]]
| OpAphid      = [[OpAphid|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#627d6d;">[</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#627d6d;">Op</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:Green;">]</span>]]
| Gemma        = [[Gemma|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:CornflowerBlue;">G<span style="font-size:11px;">19</span></span>]]
| Tachyon      = [[Tachyon|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#B7D5B9;">T<span style="font-size:11px;">AC</span></span>]]
| Brother      = [[Brother|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#61B167;">B<span style="font-size:11px;">RO</span></span>]]
| Nikki Bower  = [[Nikki Bower|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:DarkViolet;">NBR</span>]]
| Paulmark18   = [[Paulmark18|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:SteelBlue;">P</span>&<span style="font-weight:bold;color:DeepPink;">A</span>]]
| Cassieiswatching = [[Cassieiswatching|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Indigo;">C<span style="font-size:11px;">i</span>W</span>]]
| the Order 
| The Order    = [[the Order|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Brown;">ORD</span>]]
| Jules        = [[Jules|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:LightSalmon;">CMJ</span>]]
| Sarah        = [[Sarah|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#976;">S<span style="font-size:11px;">IE</span></span>]]
| Taylor       = [[Taylor|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:skyBlue;">Soc]][[Image:SkyblueStar.jpg]]</span>
| Spencer      = [[Spencer|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:LimeGreen;">LA<span style="font-size:11px;">LR</span></span>]]
| War Pylol    = [[War Pylol|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Green;">W<span style="font-size:11px;">ar</span></span>]]
| Alex         = [[Alex|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:red;">T<span style="font-size:11px;">CC</span></span>]]
| Kate         = [[Kate|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">A<span style="font-size:11px;">♥</span></span>]]
| Charlie      = [[Charlie|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">C<span style="font-size:11px;">O</span>T</span>]]
| Gavin        = [[Gavin|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">DG</span>]]
| Tariq        = [[Tariq|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">T<span style="font-size:11px;">287</span></span>]]
| The Creators = [[The Creators|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Black;">C<span style="font-size:11px;">RE</span></span>]]
| 12in12       = [[12 in 12|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:RoyalBlue;">12</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:Black;font-size:11px">IN</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:Royalblue;">12</span>]]
| Claire       = [[Claire|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Black;">Я</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:ForestGreen;">!</span>]]
| Steve        = [[Steve|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">SB</span>]]
| Hymn of One  = [[Hymn of One|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:goldenrod">HoO</span>]]
| Sophie       = [[Sophie|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">Sophie</span>]]
| #default     = <span style="font-weight:bold;color:red;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:orange;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:yellow;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:green;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:blue;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:indigo;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:violet;">?</span>}}
{{#switch: Jonas
| Bree         = [[Bree|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:DeepPink;">LG</span>]]
| Daniel       = [[Daniel|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:MidnightBlue;">DB</span>]]
| Jonas        = [[Jonas|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:DarkOrange;">J<span style="font-size:11px;">TKO</span></span>]]
| OpAphid      = [[OpAphid|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#627d6d;">[</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#627d6d;">Op</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:Green;">]</span>]]
| Gemma        = [[Gemma|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:CornflowerBlue;">G<span style="font-size:11px;">19</span></span>]]
| Tachyon      = [[Tachyon|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#B7D5B9;">T<span style="font-size:11px;">AC</span></span>]]
| Brother      = [[Brother|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#61B167;">B<span style="font-size:11px;">RO</span></span>]]
| Nikki Bower  = [[Nikki Bower|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:DarkViolet;">NBR</span>]]
| Paulmark18   = [[Paulmark18|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:SteelBlue;">P</span>&<span style="font-weight:bold;color:DeepPink;">A</span>]]
| Cassieiswatching = [[Cassieiswatching|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Indigo;">C<span style="font-size:11px;">i</span>W</span>]]
| the Order 
| The Order    = [[the Order|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Brown;">ORD</span>]]
| Jules        = [[Jules|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:LightSalmon;">CMJ</span>]]
| Sarah        = [[Sarah|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#976;">S<span style="font-size:11px;">IE</span></span>]]
| Taylor       = [[Taylor|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:skyBlue;">Soc]][[Image:SkyblueStar.jpg]]</span>
| Spencer      = [[Spencer|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:LimeGreen;">LA<span style="font-size:11px;">LR</span></span>]]
| War Pylol    = [[War Pylol|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Green;">W<span style="font-size:11px;">ar</span></span>]]
| Alex         = [[Alex|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:red;">T<span style="font-size:11px;">CC</span></span>]]
| Kate         = [[Kate|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">A<span style="font-size:11px;">♥</span></span>]]
| Charlie      = [[Charlie|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">C<span style="font-size:11px;">O</span>T</span>]]
| Gavin        = [[Gavin|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">DG</span>]]
| Tariq        = [[Tariq|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">T<span style="font-size:11px;">287</span></span>]]
| The Creators = [[The Creators|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Black;">C<span style="font-size:11px;">RE</span></span>]]
| 12in12       = [[12 in 12|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:RoyalBlue;">12</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:Black;font-size:11px">IN</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:Royalblue;">12</span>]]
| Claire       = [[Claire|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:Black;">Я</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:ForestGreen;">!</span>]]
| Steve        = [[Steve|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">SB</span>]]
| Hymn of One  = [[Hymn of One|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:goldenrod">HoO</span>]]
| Sophie       = [[Sophie|<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#ae2301;">Sophie</span>]]
| #default     = <span style="font-weight:bold;color:red;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:orange;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:yellow;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:green;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:blue;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:indigo;">?</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:violet;">?</span>}}

What you have just seen were three init calls. The list of videos currently has 329 videos, each with an init next to it - almost one hundred and ten times that many. Point being: Even though I avoided (not "fixed") the problem for now, if we don't change something, it will come back to haunt us. If we freeze the template, it'll come back when the list of videos exceeds a certain size. If we keep adding stuff to the template as well, it'll happen even earlier. When I had replaced the hardcode with templates in my attempt just then, I could barely use it twenty times before exceeding the size limit.

The current size of the #switch is, at minimum, 3632 bytes. That means, this template alone expands to 1.13957214355 megabytes on the list of videos right now. According to the links above, the limit is 1 MB. If that was true, we'd have exceeded it 41 videos ago. So either somebody set our limit higher, or the server calculates differently. Either way, this number should show you how little things add up. This tiny little template alone adds 1194928 bytes of pre-rendering size to the List of Videos. And if we keep adding videos and names, it will exceed the limit.

We're save for now, apparently, but we should think about ways to prevent this before it happens.
Thank you for your time.

P.S.: Okay, curiousity got the best of me, and I simply tried it out: On a page consisting of nothing but inits, the current version of init can be used 410 times. That leaves us in trouble in 81 videos, and suggests the size limit lies at 1.42013549805 MB. (Most probably it's set to 1.5 megabytes in a 1000 bytes per megabyte counting system.) Assuming five videos a week, we'll hit the size limit in 16.2 weeks, which is around the end of November.

Assuming we do not add anything to the template. And we all know that will happen.

Edit: I put up a demo page, and the debug-output on it states the following:

<!-- 
Pre-expand include size: 2096330 bytes
Post-expand include size: 88048 bytes
Template argument size: 2050 bytes
Maximum: 2097152 bytes
-->

...on first glance, I'm not quite sure how that fits into my previous calculations, but as you can see for yourself, 410 is the maximum for this version. Season 1 had 256 numbered videos, and a dozen uncounted ones (like NBR, pre-canon vids, etc.) - it is unlikely they stop before that limit is reached.

~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 17:06, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

This post has been edited 2 times.

I see what you mean, Renegade. I can think of two possible solutions, even though neither one really seems ideal. The first is simply to subst the template. Pretty much the only changes we make to it are to add new bloggers, so we wouldn't have to worry about having to go through and update a lot of instances of the inits anyway. One downside to this is that I'm not sure if it will even reduce the page size because it might just copy the code into the page (most of which will be unnecessary, but nevertheless there). You would know that more than I would, Renegade. The other downside is of course that if we did decide to change someone's init, we would have to go through and change them all manually, which would be a huge pain.
Another solution is to create separate templates for each blogger, or perhaps split up the bloggers into a few groups to reduce the overall size. Of course, this doesn't really eliminate the problem because we would still reach the limit at some point, but it would give us quite a bit more space I think. One downside to this is that we would have to change all the current templates to the new ones (which I could do with the LGBot fairly easily I think), and we would also have to remember to use the different notation in the future. An even bigger problem is that I'm not sure we could use the "blogger" field from Template:Vid for instance if the template name was changed and not just a parameter (I hope that made sense). I suppose we could name the templates InitBree, InitDaniel, InitJonas, etc. and then use something like {{init{{{blogger}}}}} instead of {{init|{{{blogger}}}}} like we have now.
One more suggestion is to split up the video page into seasons so that we don't keep getting closer to this problem, and also so the page doesn't take so long to load. This just seems like a good idea anyway to me, but I suppose I should suggest that there and not here. Anyway, I hope some of that made sense and everyone please correct me if I am wrong anywhere.
Thanks!--Jonpro 18:03, 18 August 2007 (CDT)
Substituting would work to circumvent the problem, simply because the engine wouldn't expand templates anymore, but as you yourself said, changing an init afterwards would be a major pain in the ass. Given the fact that minor changes are constantly made (I myself changed plaintext Я to HTML-encoded Я earlier), I don't think that solution is feasible.
While I do support the grouping idea on the grounds that I think unofficial characters like Paul & Andrea and Cassieiswatching should be seperated from official ones, as you mentioned, that only delays the problem.
However, given that I suggested such a template next to Template:FakeBlog and Template:FakeVidChar just a few days ago, I'll move all fan characters to Template:FakeInit later. If we want to do stuff like TAAGInit, OrderInit and ResInit afterwards is another question, but I do think splitting the List of Videos by season would be the more efficient way - I have that in the back of my head everytime I see it anyway, and it means that other than the non-canon people's template calls, nothing has to be changed.
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 18:29, 18 August 2007 (CDT)

I agree with dividing the video page into seasons, as it's getting to be ridiculously long to load now anyways, not to mention the problems it is causing with this template. Someone should post on that talk page, but my official vote on the matter is "Yes". --Zoey 23:49, 19 August 2007 (CDT)

Update on October 5th, 2007

Due to additions of Mallory, KM characters, etc., as per the demo, the current version of init can be used 358 times; the current version of List of Lonelygirl15 videos/Season 1 includes 324 calls to init, and there are at least two additional templates for the season-links. If the template keeps growing like this, we might still "make it" till November, even with split lists.

~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 18:27, 5 October 2007 (CDT)

Edit: 353 → 358 - Zoey's cleanup helped a little.

Update on January 8th, 2008

According to the demo, we're now down to 334 uses. As mentioned above, LoLg15V/S1 has 324 uses, plus two additional templates. One or two more bloggers, and we're screwed.

~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 22:27, 8 January 2008 (CST)
Maybe there could be a separate template for the KM Characters (serving the same purpose, but taking some of the load off this template) --FH14 12:50, 9 January 2008 (EST)

Update on January 21st, 2008: A current Problem

Our splitting and cautiousness may have delay it by three months, but the problem I predicted back in August has finally arrived: The current init can only be used 319 times on one page, and the last five inits on List of Lonelygirl15 videos/Season 1 already disabled themselves. We can't procrastinate this anymore - we need to find a way to shrink this template significantly.

The ever-so-logical debug-output reads

<!-- 
Pre-expand include size: 2095441 bytes
Post-expand include size: 60237 bytes
Template argument size: 1799 bytes
Maximum: 2097152 bytes
-->

by now.

~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 18:48, 20 January 2008 (CST)

Update on January 21st, 2008: A past Problem

Apparently, the immediate pressure of the problem actually occurring in the wild kind of inspired me - I had a stroke of genius and, after running from the problem for months, came up with a viable solution that not only circumvents the problem while not requiring any updates to other pages, but is also much easier to handle for newbies and non-coders.
It seems like this problem is now a thing of the past.

~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 20:39, 20 January 2008 (CST)

And Now Sonia...

Well it seems as though We All Make Mistakes is obviously a Sonia blog. I'll suggest Sonia for starters, but that's probably too long.   •Silver•   Talk | Contribs 16:26, 8 October 2007 (CDT)

Added a temporary one for now - SONIA (aimed for the color this ugly hat she's wearing XD).
~ Renegade (talk | contribs) 16:42, 8 October 2007 (CDT)

Change of "Creators" to "Recap"

Well, so far, all of the videos that the creator initials have been used on are recap vids. Sooo, I say change the Creator initial to Recap initial. Love, Randy (Say Wha'? | Whachu Doin'?) [5:25 PM, Central Daylight]


Jennie

Need a new one for Jennie ASAP! Tried to figure it out myself, it was too much! Nancypants 21:46, 17 December 2007 (CST)

Well, first questions first: Does Jennie have any Forum Username or MySpace name that we can use for inspiration?? (Man, has this been the year or Inits or what?) --Pheon 23:39, 17 December 2007 (CST)
I'm going to Put a temporary Init "JEN" for the time being because the ????? are giving me a seizure. --FH14 13:46, 18 December 2007

Dr. Hart

Someone hurry and make one for him, I hate those awful question marks! I still can't seem to figure out how to do it myself! Nancypants 15:40, 17 January 2008 (CST)

Gina

I'm not a fan of the current init for Gina; the lowercase letters make it look untidy in my opinion. I changed a few letters to come out with this: GNA. What do you think? --Tasty 21:31, 21 February 2008 (GMT)

Colors

So how come all the initials have no color now? Nancypants 14:22, 20 August 2008 (CDT)

12in12 → TAAG

I really didn't like how the blogger of the Lonelygirl15 Season One Finale was called "12 in 12" or just "12in12," so I changed it to TAAG. It took me a while but I figured out that the page had to be called Template:Init/Taag but if you use {{init|TAAG}} or {{init|Taag}}, either will work. It looks like this: TAAG, and I changed all of the pages that linked to Template:Init/12in12. It just sort of is more accurate. TAAG is blogging, not the 12 in 12! Kevin 14:51, 4 January 2009 (CST)